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Flagged PVP - Ganked by PVE-ers!

Discussion in 'Release 28 Feedback Forum' started by Fister Magee, Apr 2, 2016.

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  1. Ancev

    Ancev Bug Hunter

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    In Ultima Online (Felucca) - one of the most enticing things that I noticed, which would cause a lot of havoc in the pvp environment was an unlooted corpse. Some players would go nuts! Even 'good' blue players would occasionally take a risk and try looting another blue player's corpse. This may have been a result of greed, a lack of self restraint, momentary lapse of virtue or other reasons but it activated their criminal flag which would create more player conflict in the environment. You would get chased by other players until your criminal flag wore off. This was part of the fun. These players were taking a risk (their inventory of items) by turning grey, in order to get a few items off of another player's corpse. I know it sounds bad, it's profiting off of the misfortune of another player, etc. But don't feel too bad - the majority of players engaging in PvP knew what they were getting into. That's part of the fun imo.

    There were thieves, who stole things from other players and they were scoundrels. These scumbags were delighted to unload a player's treasure corpse of all it's items! There were also opportunist types of players that would lurk around in the shadows and hope to encounter other players that were engaged in conflict, and wait to cherry pick them as their health got low. Uncouth scum! This created unpredictable elements of player conflict interactivity in the game environment which I think kept things interesting in the PvP world.

    But in Shroud - we have the Oracle, and in my view, I want to be able to track these types of activities - some of which may have hidden repercussions, but others would have more immediate visibility - such as providing a Death List and Aggression List. (eg: who killed me, and who attacked me.) Once you know the players that are consistently trying to gank you, you can make decisions with this information. A certain amount of discretion can be applied for harmless player conflict occurrences, of course. For repeat offenders of ill intent - Declare war on their guild, or don't buy items from their vendors or towns. I believe "blue griefers" are a thing and the richard craniums of the world will still operate within the rules and still be jerks, so having the information to make informed decisions will empower the players who become victim of wrong doing. Obviously a player's current associations and the in-game reputation of other players comes into play here. The sensible player will have the mind to determine which players are just having fun and which ones are making a regular habit to mess with them.

    One of these hidden repercussions would be the Oracle keeping track of non-flagged players that are attacking PvP flagged players, and penalizing them for defying the Oracle, who has already told these Avatar's about her protection and how it works. For defying the Oracle, there should be penalties. This penalty might be an incrementally increased cost for maintaining the protection of the Oracle after a certain threshold has been met. (and perhaps the Oracle could use these funds for something...? Contribute to some type of bounty algorithm or w/e, spawn various types of events that are in-line with the Oracle's motives, etc)

    Perhaps the Oracle's protection can even degrade to a level that it becomes unreliable and deleterious to a player unless quests of atonement occur. (eg: "Your connection to the Oracle wanes..." etc)

    This will encourage unflagged players to engage in sanctioned forms of combat, such as Guild vs Guild, Factions/Feuds, other instanced PvP activities, etc which would be ignored from the Oracle's eye in this regard. Perhaps POT owners/Stewards could also inform the Oracle of sanctioned events, so that freestyle forms of pvp can occur without any implications.

    I believe that players who are dedicated to dynamic worlds and dynamic forms of combat must shoulder the burden of unpredictability and help retain the guise of an easy entry into PvP by allowing players that are unflagged to attack flagged PvPers. To simply force players to make a choice (or not give them a choice at all) is against my personal thoughts of a player conflict gradient which bridges the gap in the spectrum of players who adamantly oppose PvP vs those that love to engage in it. Those players who want to be cheap will be able to game the system for awhile, but once the Oracle figures out what type of player you are, there should be consequences.
     
  2. Fister Magee

    Fister Magee Avatar

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    Beautiful! And I would love this!
     
  3. Mekong

    Mekong Avatar

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    Very well thought out and presented. I agree with the majority of this. @Chris thoughts?
     
  4. Black Tortoise

    Black Tortoise Avatar

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    agree with this!

    i also really like the idea that the players share a burden of unpredictability. thats what made the potential for open pvp in UO so fun (not that shroud should replicate that exactly, just saying, the thrill of unpredictability made the experience unique).
     
  5. Mystic

    Mystic Avatar

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    This is obviously a sensitive subject that both sides can have strong opinions about. I've had to clean quite a few posts out. Please keep within the rules and respect each others differing opinions without attacking each other.
     
  6. blaquerogue

    blaquerogue Avatar

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    Wow! I love this thread!!! ;)
    here's the main problem i see, hopefully i wont have repercussion for it, so ill try and be as civilized as i can.

    The Problem with SOTA is that not a lot of the devs are for PVP! Very few in fact, you can tell by the facial expressions in the vids when a PVP question comes up. Its pretty obvious!

    First of all if you choose to be PVE, thats fine with me no problems there, but when you choose to be PVE and engage in PVP, your telling me that i just want to be able to kill someone at a time when death will be inevitable .

    example; 2 pvp people are dukeing it out, one of the PVP people is down to very low hp/health, the PVE who absolutely hates PVP, can finally get his/her revenge from years past of being ganked (this to me is a loser, and deserves to be pk'd over and over) There is nothing worse than coming down from the mountain where you were hiding during war, and killing the wounded! You are a loser, a weak person, and yet you complain about how you were ganked in UO years ago! Hypocrite is a good term here!

    Bottom line is that the PVE is no better than the 5 pkrs that ganked you in UO when you were out simply gathering wood, and obviously weak/ low level. You will complain about that, but they accept this PVE blue attack and possible kill.

    If PVE are allowed to attack a flagged person at any given moment, the same should be allowed for the PVP person to attack any PVE at any given moment! Fair is fair. What we have now it beyond unfair, it is a scum bag tactic just as bad as 5 pks of level 60 plus, killing off a level 3 person!

    So to the PVE people that support this in my eyes are hypocrites

    The PVP people that do not support this i call Honorable.

    Let people flagged PVP fight and be happy, and in turn let PVE people roleplay, follow quest lines and be happy, Neither should have any interference on the other.
     
  7. blaquerogue

    blaquerogue Avatar

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    I wanted to add this.......... If i roll into a town, and i see someone flagged PVP, i know 2 things can happen, they could attack me or they may not. When i roll into a town and see PVE im not worried about them attacking me since i cant attack them at first sight. I shouldnt as pvp have to worry about people that are non pvp.

    When i roll into a PVP zone i know from the get go i can be attacked by anyone. Having an option like you can pvp from a pve standing, leaves many exploits as described in many posts here, giving the pve a chance to be what they hate the most! Plus i can be non pvp flagged, and watch you attack someone then turn around and attack you when your health is low, so now that makes me what pve hate the most???? does it not? That option is the most ridiculous thing that this game has ever come out with! Either pick PVP or PVE have to go through Oracle to change status if you want to engage in PVP activities, no one is forcing anyone to be PVP if they chose not too.

    All i ever hear from PVE is i dont care about PVP as long as it doesnt effect my game! well i say the same for PVE as long as it doesnt effect my game (which it does as long as you can attack me whenever you choose!)
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
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  8. warxnox

    warxnox Avatar

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    Well indeed I consider myself as a Roleplayer PvPer.

    Meaning ? I enjoy PvP but with RP reasons and social interactions.

    The best RP moments I had in UO shards were during small PvP skirmish (bandits/thiefs) or massive one (racial wars etc). (to be honest, I also had the worst RP moments during PK events disguised with poor RP reasons).

    That's why all those PvP flag, PvP only area and PvP restrictions are crap for me... because it is so artificial !!

    Indeed, when I see how much hatred some so-called PvE/RP players can have against PvP, I actually wonder if I am not loosing my time here with what was supposed to be "the best mature community ever", and if those player do really understand the difference between RP and real-life...
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
  9. blaquerogue

    blaquerogue Avatar

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    Well said, i used to RP PVP as well, as a Cleric. But this game has killed being a cleric, you cant heal anyone unless they are in the party with you, so i cannot run around helping people out, and since PVP cannot attack PVE, i cant even go help the guy that just got ganked for no reason, and on top of that how fair is it if a PVE attacks a PVP, and then runs out of the scene??? How do you get revenge on one of those PVP/PVE players? you dont since you cant attack a PVE as easy as a PVE can attack PVP!
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2016
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  10. GraveDncer

    GraveDncer Avatar

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    Been complaining about this from day one, it seems people are finally understanding the system. !SDRAWKCAB

    It's almost like the devs are so concerned about PVEer getting grieved, that they swung to far the other route and are now inadvertily trolling the PVPer.
     
  11. GraveDncer

    GraveDncer Avatar

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    I get jumped by more PVE players then PVP players, by a ratio of about 3-1. Flagged players tend to dual, that's just what I've experienced.
     
  12. Abydos

    Abydos Avatar

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    I dont wanna be griefed by pve players in combat.
     
  13. StrangerDiamond

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    Indeed, if its going to stay anywhere close to the current rule, PvE players who attack you should be perma flagged pvp to me regardless of the scene. This way if I see them again at least my avatar remembers them and knows they provoked me, so I can provoke them again.

    We could ask the Oracle what she thinks, she'll probably answer "Huh?" "I do not understand, can you explain" *explains* "Huh?"

    :p
     
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  14. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

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    Hehe, you mean you haxxored my last 10 posts and left Phydra's personal attack intact, I'm not complaining... I'm a big boy... peace :p
     
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  15. sake888

    sake888 Avatar

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    I was gonna comment on that too but, what ever. Seems like one sided moderation to me as your posts didn't come across as being worthy of being deleted. What an odd underlying tone this instills...

    I hadn't commented on these boards much in the last few months, I think I'll go back to doing that.
     
  16. Fister Magee

    Fister Magee Avatar

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    Instead of mangling our discussion, would you see if the Dev's would grace us with their presence? It is clear we have discussed as far as we can.. arguments were made either way (?) and I believe we will continue to bicker now until this rule is changed, OR until the dev's wander on in here and tell us what their plan is?
     
  17. Mystic

    Mystic Avatar

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    It's not my place to do that. I believe they are aware of the issue as it's been discussed a couple times on the forums. I'm sure they will address it when they feel they are ready to.
    The discussion has the ability to continue in a mature way. It was fine up until the last couple pages. People just need to be respectful even if they disagree with each other.
     
  18. Mystic

    Mystic Avatar

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    The post you were referring to has been removed as well after I had a reread of it. Believe it or not, we're human and do miss things. Now if we may, let's continue on with the topic.
    Thanks
     
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  19. cariac

    cariac Avatar

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    How to ruin a game with a stupid rule.
    I really dont like griefs.
     
  20. Crazy Phil

    Crazy Phil Avatar

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    Original...
    "Temporary PVP Flagging: Avatars who have not enabled open PvP may now initiate attacks against open PvP Avatars. This requires selecting an open PvP Avatar, using a single target offensive glyph on them, and confirming your choice. Doing so forfeits the Oracle’s protection until you leave the scene, allowing any other Avatar to attack and slay you and claim your ransom. Note that using healing (or other beneficial glyphs) on open PvP avatars in your party will also flag you for open PvP for the duration of the scene."

    Minor adjustment that could help cut down on abuse...
    "Combat Flagging for Open PVP: Avatars who have not enabled open PvP may now initiate attacks against open PvP Avatars. This requires selecting an open PvP Avatar, using a single target offensive glyph on them, and confirming your choice. Doing so forfeits the Oracle's protection and flags you for open PvP, allowing any other Avatar to attack and slay you and claim your ransom, until you visit the Oracle and ask for protection once again. Note that using healing (or other beneficial glyphs) on open PvP avatars in your party will also flag you for open PvP."

    Why is there this unique and special PvP flag just for non-flagged people? It should be the same exact flag. It's much easier to exit a scene for instant forgiveness rather than traveling to speak with the Oracle and being like, "I'm sorry, I was wrong."

    And finally, everyone's least favorite option (that might actually work just fine when more players join). Remove PvP flagging entirely and introduce... *drum roll*

    [​IMG]

    This way, you'd only ever see PvP players. Remember, we're not split into specific Servers or Shards. With enough players joining for PvP after the final wipe, that could be absolute paradise for some of us.

    Until something like this happens though... if you are flagged... trust nobody. Always be on-guard. Just like UO. ;)

    I would like to see PvP grow and shine bright in SotA, along with everything else that makes this Selective Multiplayer Role-Playing Game a amazingly packed package of beautiful content. :cool:
     
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