Gambling

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MrBlight, Jun 17, 2017.

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  1. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    Or implement fun dice roll games or mini slot game chance for game items and cotos that spin and can be done 3 times a day. Something like black desert online doe for their players. This is reward the player for playing and a reason to log in plus it's fun. Port already does this to some extent with prizes they give out at telethons and dev hangouts. Now to make it limited and visually appealing and fun and in game;)

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    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
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  2. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    Fair enough, just because the majority of other MMOs based out of the US treat gambling very carefully due to the real money implications (even when they don't tolerate RMT in the first place) that doesn't mean that Port should...
    IANAL, but generally the rules vary by state here in the US. In my home state raffles are okay but lotteries aren't, the difference between the two is a bit hazy and they expect you to clear it with the government once the value is significant. Most laws deal less with actual gambling and more with enabling or hosting gambling.
     
  3. Bowen Bloodgood

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    And again this is far too generalized. Next we'll be risking being in trouble gambling sand dollars because at some point someone could sell them for a profit. In UO a piece of horse pucky sold for 1 million gold. Can you imagine the argument in court if the player who sold it won it in a card game and then sold that gold for cash?
     
  4. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Again we're not talking about having a system for gambling real money.. and nobody is suggesting Portalarium shouldn't monitor potential illegal activity. But the logic being used here is so generalized and vague that what you're basically saying if Portalarium could get into trouble cause a couple of players decided on their own to bet over a game of rock-paper-scissors.. I've heard of a lot of vague references about a lot of unspecific places learning non-specific lessons about what could potentially happen in a vague scenario because some player might sell off their gold for cash. Which they can already do.
     
  5. Tahru

    Tahru Avatar

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    minecraft has gambling, just saying.
     
  6. Lazlo

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    Again, I understand that there are logical inconsistencies in gambling laws. That doesn't change what the laws are, how they have been enforced in the past, and how they're likely to be enforced in the future.

    It's hard to find a case exactly like a hypothetical situation where SotA adds an in-game casino, but there was a case in 2015 where a Maryland woman sued an MMO for gambling losses in a game where players could buy currency and use that currency in a casino. The woman lost, and the main two points made in the ruling were:

    1) The game was deemed to be a game of skill overall despite having some mini games that people could play with game currency.

    2) While the game had a secondary black market for the selling of game assets, the game company did not host or sanction those sales, instead forbidding sales in their TOS.

    Point 1 is something that I think could easily be viewed differently in other cases, especially depending on exactly the structure of the game. If people can log into a game and do nothing but play a gambling mini game, it becomes fairly irrelevant how much skill is involved in other parts of the game that they're not participating in.

    Point 2 is something that doesn't apply to SotA because they do sanction and host player to player rm sales of game assets.

    Most importantly, what happened to this game company is what happens quite often to anyone that hosts anything that might possibly be interpreted as rm gambling, which is that they got sued for losses by someone trying to free roll them.
     
  7. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    Even in in game money, you'd have dozens of folks offer to exchange COTOs for IGG at the entrance and in the forums and Markee would probably by acting as a cashier. Frankly, yes, Port could get in trouble over playing rock-paper-scissors for IGG cash in many places, if the games were numerous and the stakes high enough. Lots of places hate gambling.
     
  8. Thwip

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    Oh. My. Goodness.
    Don't be scared.
     
  9. Sentinel2

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    Adding gambling to the game would be awesome! Not to mention a really neat gold sink.

    I'd love to setup a gambling hall somewhere. If we can get tables for them...
     
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  10. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus

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    Gambling is a major legal maze games generally don't trend into, for a variety of reasons. We have far more needful things to develop in Shroud right now that a gambling system :). Will it be possible in some form in the future, like Ep. 2 or later? Possibly, but we really do need to focus on other priorities right now.
     
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  11. Poor game design

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    Berek,

    I totally agree that a full blown gambling system is not in the cards right now (see what I did there?). However, we already have a "coin stamper" that was developed so players could mint their own coins. What I'd love to see is us using that coin stamper to create "custom poker chips". This would allow players to create their own games and tie back their individual "currencies" to those games. No extra development needed! No giant systems!

    For example, I could make 100k poker chips and then tell people I would honor them at 1 gold piece per chip. Then I could let people play the "games of chance" that I as a player made up, and at the end of the day anyone that has a chip can cash it in as a "winning". The whole thing would be player managed and controlled, Portalarium would simply be providing a simple tool to make it all possible. Please consider/pass on to the team for discussion.
     
  12. Berek

    Berek Portalarian Emeritus

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    An interesting way of looking at it. Will definitely bring it forward to discuss.
     
  13. Burzmali

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    @Baron Drocis Fondorlatos

    How would that system prevent someone choosing to create an online "poker" game using the same tools except exchanging those tokens for real world money instead of IGG?
     
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  14. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I'm sure if any additional games are implemented, they will be done just like chess and checkers have been. The game itself will be added, and will be available for players to utilize as they desire. Just because decks of cards exist, and you can "use" them to shuffle/deal them, doesnt mean Port has to implement the wagering mechanics. Leave that to players, we know how games of chance work.

    There is absolutely no reason for Port to get involved in gambling.
     
  15. Poor game design

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    What's the difference between using books as poker chips? Nothing. So that could be performed RIGHT NOW. Would you suggest we stop allowing players to have unique books?

    Game makers can't be held responsible for creating unique digital items that have no inherent value in their game. So long as Portalarium is not making money off it, and the chips have zero inherent value (i.e. NPC's won't buy them) I fail to see the problem.
     
  16. MrBlight

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    @Berek
    Could you add card games or dice games and leave all gambling from ports side out of it?

    It any betting is to be done it can be done from player to player. Much like gustball tournies n w.e.

    Thoughts?
     
  17. Poor game design

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    UO has had gambling for over 20 years. :)
     
  18. Burzmali

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    Two points, as far as I know EA never endorsed RMT for UO and 2007 isn't 2017.
     
  19. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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  20. Burzmali

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