Berek, To a large group of us who played UO for 15 - 20 years we all know the Bonuses that were given to PvP players. - Specials Scrolls that allowed player to reach a 120 skill level, only available in a PvP area. - Double resources given to players strictly in PvP areas. - Special armor/equipment with special buffs that were available to Faction Members that were allowed t be carried over into non-PvP areas. - Our monthly payments being poured into attempted balance of skills over and over again to please the small PvP community - The remake/reprogramming of Factions over and over again for just a few people. Every one of those Carrots or so called incentives failed. The PvM community is well aware of the same old Risk vs, Reward excuse which is only a way of forcing non-PvP people to become sacrificial lambs for the PvP crowd. We all know where this is headed. We all saw UO lose more and more players to these failed policies. We all saw how Shadowbane barely lasted a year or two. This is not about PvP players, many of our friends and family enjoy a little PvP, This is about the path the game is taking. This is about a ideology that continues to think if people just try it they will like it, that if we keep adding carrots on a stick they will eventually come over. That approach has failed miserably in UO. It has failed so miserably that a large number of PvM people "HATE" the way they feel they are being treated. That is why you see the fervor that exists on this subject. You can laugh that off but you cannot deny it exists. To many of us the Risk vs. Reward that keeps being discussed is that we (PvM) take the Risk and PvP gets the reward. That is not and never will be the definition of Risk vs. Reward. You want true Risk vs. Reward. Fine, get a volunteer group together of PvM people. For 50,000 gold per week, I'll guarantee you that I will run naked through as many PvP areas I can for 4 hours per week. Now you truely have Risk vs. Reward. I take the Risk and I get the Reward. The reward to the PvP player is they get to kill me. Hey double that and I'll let them kill me over and over again. It will not be much fun for me but what the heck, I'm being rewarded and your biggest vocal crowd gets what they want. They get to kill someone with no skills and no defenses. In PvM many of us die 10 - 15 times a night. Yes we keep going back for the challenge and the Risk. We die over and over until we figure out how to defeat that MOB or group of MOB's. Sometimes we have to quit and come back later when we are better trained. Every time we die we lose more Exp. But to us that is the Risk. Our only Reward is generally the Fun we have together as a group and defeating the MOB(s) we face. We do not ask you to increase our Exp by 25% because we die a lot or because we keep going back to take the Risk. So you see you can use that Risk vs. Reward stuff on us all day, the issue is we do not believe in it.