Goodbye

Dang it! Now I have to get banned so I can be one of the cool kids.

 

Yes....I can feeeeeel it.

 

Gooooooood. Your anger gives you focus, makes you stronger!

 

There is issues with moderation that is making it tough to sell the game to our friends and guilds and at the very least I suggest the following:

1. No moderation laced with personal opinion.

Moderators should take a neutral stance and not weigh on topics, especially when threatening/warning or correcting users behavior. Time and time again I have seen this happen, especially with hot button issues. It has created the illusion that their opinion is the "official" opinion of how the game is being developed when even within Portalarium, the debate continues on a lot of things. It has indeed squelched a lot of thoughtful debates and discussions, and also have led to a lot of potential big money backers to holding off or completely losing interest in a game they should be extremely excited about.

Moderators are volunteers who give their personal time to help this game and that is great. However, allowing them to be heavily opinionated while threatening/warning users is simply not worth creating an image problem when there is plenty of people who would be happy to help moderate with more fairness and neutrality.

 

Directly relatable in what way?

Her post is they don't do what the OP said was happening. He complained about getting warnings after having done nothing.

That is anathema to what she said happens on the backside.

So, is she wrong?

quis custodiet ipsos custodes. Who watches the watchers?

 

I can't comment on how or if it applies to a particular player or situation, but in reference to your conundrum Joviex:

 

Amen, sister!

 

The whole problem with this set of rules is, if some one, a "troll" or whatever, gets on these forums and bashes the game hard, how "this sucks, that sucks and everything sucks" and how the "developers are this and that".

Then you get another player that gets on and defends and saids "don't bash our game, don't be a troll, be constructive etc." then receives a warning or a ban because they were considered attacking another person. But the game bashing is allowed to continue. How are backers suppose to respond? We put in time and money into this game and we HATE to see destructive comments from random people like this that can potentially turn away future backers.

I am not talking about negative comments that are constructive and make valid points, but to see OPEN PVP OR THE GAME WILL FAIL AND ALL MY GUILD MATES THINK THIS GAME IS A JOKE kind of posts are in no way helpful or constructive to the game.

So FL response is," don't comment", "don't feed the trolls", but the bashing is allowed to continue... how is the fair to your LOYAL backers? How do you suspect us not to take some kind of action?

 

via Dame Lori

 

I hadn't planned on responding at all as I didn't want to stir the pot at all, but after 6 pages and some comment I personally find disturbing I figure I may as well jump in.

I respect out moderators and I don't envy their task. Someone in here implied being moderated was proof you made a good point which isn't true at all. The only thing it proves is you said something in a manner in which was inappropriate. If you're being moderated and receiving warnings, check yourself. Even if you feel someone is intentionally focusing on you to report (which could entirely be true for all we know)..

If disagreeing with the devs on things were reason to get warnings.. I'd have been banned 3 or 4 times by now. In truth, and I loathe to admit it but I have been moderated once and you know what? What it was my own fault. I don't know if it was reported or someone just ran across the offending post but it sure got wiped in a hurry let me tell you. But the point in.. it was MY error, MY fault. I typed the post.. I hit reply and someone did their job.

Credit where credit is due. We are the ones responsible for how we conduct ourselves. If we slip up it doesn't matter how or why we get caught. The fact remains we slipped up. Own it.

 

Well this may seem a bit silly but how are they going to know they screwed up before they do it?

When I made my post I didn't think I was doing anything wrong either.

When or how you find out your screwed up doesn't change much. Once you know, you know. If there's a problem with not being warned every single time then you can always bring it up privately.

 

You reply with intelligent discourse.

You call them "destructive" but in what way are they so? Because someone (new) might take what away from the comments? If they are nothing of substance, what does it matter? and if they are nothing of substance and someone (new) does take some weird form of negativity about the game as a whole, what does that really say about the reader?

You can't force your opinion on people, from EITHER SIDE.

Don't stoop to the level of the person bashing. As was just pointed out, they invite criticism. Some crits are simply "things suck". Is it constructive? No, but it is not against the rules either.

What you shouldn't do is respond to people with an equal amount of vitriol or bile from the opposite spectrum of "everything is roses and fairies" land.

Make some points, run down a list of strong facts, that support your point of view.

I have been accused of being an ass because some of my posts come off like an "intellectual hammer" no joke, someone told me that I needed to stop posting because I beat people over the head with thought.

Be that as it may, at least there is thought, and not:

a) blind acceptance or
b) abject disdain for whatever is, and is being made by the team

There are a number of "good" arguers on here (both sides of the fence) that do, indeed, get called trolls (from both sides) when in fact they provide positive, constructive criticism (and support) without resorting to vacuous comments.

 

Sometimes it feels like trolls are not moderated as forcefully as longtime posters. This may be in part because we are on "high alert" to make sure the boards seem accommodating. Repeated claims of discrimination against negative feedback, or "dissent is ok unless it's about pvp" send steam out of our ears, and I know I've had to learn to just walk away. Personally, I dislike using the ignore button, and like to think that I am a reasonable person who can converse with anyone. I have been proven wrong more than once

Veteran posters and fervent supporters should understand that, given these constant accusations, the best course of action to prevent substantiating such claims is to let the comments stand. Surely if all such comments were removed it could appear that certain opinions were being quashed. So, when it comes to moderator activities (like removing posts) and participation (like responding to a seemingly offensive post) it makes sense for both sides to apply the logic: "Better safe than sorry".

Please note, I'm referring to the subjective feelings that come with posting/browsing here sometimes. I am not accusing any mods or devs of discrimination or favoritism.

Now, everyone go practice the 'Brush yo shoulders off' emote!

 

All that has been accomplished here today is the Mods have successfully implemented a system (and defined that system) that thoroughly informs any troll and future troll how to successfully troll this forum within the rules and get loyal backers banned.

Or should i say try to entice loyal backers to get themselves banned.

 

"Our Needs For Public Floggings"


FireLotus <---<<< The Good Lady FireLotus Quoted;

But FireLotus, I’m one of the GOOD GUYS!

The reason we have rules is to protect the community and create a positive experience for our players; to give them a place to gather together, collaborate with us, and have FUN. If I didn’t apply the rules to everyone fairly, how much fun would that be? That’s why ANYONE who violates the forum rules can, and will, earn a warning point. If we didn’t, that would be FAVORITISM, and we don’t play favorites. Yes, even Moderators can be warned, though that is handled offline.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~TL~

Our Dear Lady FireLotus is correct to the current Rules of Forum:

Yet our Laws are also a subject which cries out for debate. The cries for mercy have a need to be heard and our Dear "enderandrew" is just such an example of an outcry to be witnessed.

We all as posting members of our grief, are engaged to bring about a new game from it's Alpha, We are a people united in our search for enjoyment and each of us deserve our friends to know of such interests as punishment for our misbehavior.

This is a New Britannia, searching for "new ways" to deal with everything within realm of our new world. This is why I propose the idea that we need a forums thread where public floggings can be done in view of everyone to see. In this way, we can bare witness to the charges and the accused, yet is available for our public outcries for mercy, hear them or hang them. Disregarding whether they be Moderator of Member, their names should be posted accused of "Heresy Against Our Good Gaming Kingdom". Then we can post our outcries for "Mercy, Hang Them, or Hear Them" and then allow our more prudent judgment be the blame in it's outcome.

Currently our Faithful Moderators are forced by law to be both judge and jury, leaving them seemingly as hooded masked executioners of our forum's rule and appearing darker than a Darkstarr's dinner table. There is no doubt among us that we are in need of such rules to have proper creative forum, yet this is "Our New Britannia and Our Forums of Agreed Rule" and we have a need for our better public venue to be a better judge of our nature, for our ideas to be fully expressed.

What's everyone's opinion here? Do we need public floggings? Do we need to be heard in mercy as well as in our execution?
But most importantly, "Do we need to be entertained?"
Whatcha' Tink New Britannia?
~Time Lord~

 

Emder I think I head these forums sing a song today, but take a break bud, cant wait till your back.


*edited by FireLotus to fix broken link*

 

@TL: Sorry bud but there's a reason you keep these things private. Making a public spectacle of people would quickly turn into a circus and there would always be cries of "why hasn't ____ been put through this?"

 

"Yep, I hear ya, But Where are We Going to Find Such Quality Forums Trolling Entertainment?" !
~Time Lord~

 

My good friend Time Lord,

I understand the need to discuss issues along these lines, but I believe the discussion is rooted in a failure of communication, specifically as pertains to why we have that rule. It is true that our local mods have a tendency to be a little heavy handed in their doling out of due punishments, such that you're often told you've done something wrong (or in this case told how to do things right) without really being told why. The unfortunate reality is that most people get defensive when faced with this kind of treatment. I'm quite confident that the good Lady Fire Lotus's post, for this very reason, ruffled some feathers despite its good intentions.

What we often forget (because we're not often reminded) is that conflicts between aggressive personalities are not just a detriment to the image of the game. They are more a detriment to the sense of community these forums are meant to promote. This is a place where people can both criticize and support the game. I have seen (and done) both, sometimes quite to the critical extreme and sometimes quite to the extreme of praise. I have made attempts to moderate conflict, I have stepped in to defend unpopular beliefs I've felt have some merit, and I've stepped away from threads that have grown overly personal and moved more towards arguments ad hominem. In all of this, I make an effort--especially when I'm posting about a topic about which I feel strongly--to remember (and to make it clear in my response that I remember) that complaining or defending a thing won't do any good at all if I can't or don't adequately explain why I feel that thing is right or wrong. Giving someone the proverbial beatdown doesn't help anything, and it risks giving newcomers the feeling that they aren't welcome here--like the community is segregated. You know, if you ain't with us, you're against us. (That's bad.)

One thing I've learned over many years of participating in many different kinds of "delicate" discussions is that fights have a greater impact than ruining the discussion at hand. They make people not want to discuss anything at all. At the same time, they undermine the productive discussions we do have. Plainly put, ragefests between fanboys and critics aren't something developers and producers are keen to see. If no one wants to see it, why do it?

As I said before, too, you can never accurately judge who is trolling and who is legitimately irate. If you make a fight out of something that could be otherwise approached constructively, you risk influencing that person's opinion of this community in a very negative way, and that's not at all good for the game's PR. For many gamers, there is nothing at all worse than a local forum full of fanboys who refuse to recognize that there is anything wrong with a project. There is always something wrong with a project. SotA is no exception, and if we want people to really believe that this can be a great game despite its flaws, we need to be honest about what those flaws are, just as we need to point out what will be so great about the game. If you really think about it, information about SotA is scattered across lots of different sources that can be challenging to find for newcomers who might not even know that those sources exist, and it can be easy for some of us who know this stuff through and through to forget that. We should make an effort to link those resources when responding to posts that clearly indicate ignorance. More importantly, we should just remember that ignorance isn't usually a bad thing. Most people are willing and able to learn if pointed in the right direction.

Being kind to others can help bring more backers to SotA. People come for the game. They stay for the community. Not all of those people back right from the get-go, so everything we can do to make people feel comfortable and at home in this community directly contributes to the likelihood of would-be backers to pledge. That's what we need to remember--the why behind the rule, not just the rule itself.

 

Entertain me, that is what I want.