Let's talk about combat!

Skalex - I believe you will be able to add a skill multiple times to your deck, though I'm not sure how many duplicates will be allowed. Of course, wait for an official confirmation, that's just what I recall.

Please make this a Wind + Baking combo!

 

Thanks Browncoat,

Very reassuring... Very logical. I am glad that is part of the system.

Depending on how many times we can multiply a card, this may not be as big an issue as I thought but still could be.

 

If you are playing a mage who is using a staff as his weapon will there be cards for the staff hit and spells? Can you choose to just use just spells or would you have to unequip a melee weapon?

Really excited to try out this system!

 

If you don't put any staff skills in your deck, then you would auto-attack with your staff but only the spells you place in your deck would appear. Note that that may not be optimal, since spells like Ignite Weapon (Fire magic) might combo very well with Crushing Blow (Bludgeon).

 

Don't forget dodging, A good dodge spell makes combat more fun, Neverwinter has it nailed for the Rogue, A couple of mind control spells would be nice to turn monsters on each other etc, and a good sneak skill so you don't have to fight at all!, Less is more, Dark Souls has it right, very precise movements where every block and counter means life and death, Underworld 1-2 had amazing combat tension for its time, so hats off for that.

 

I thought it was said that wands/staves will use the charged spell on them in auto-attacks until they are all used up then it becomes a bludgeon. But maybe I don't remember right. Only certain spells can be put on wands/staves and only so many.. Nothing set in stone.. for balance purposes and to keep mage types out of melee they might make a lot of charges at 1/2 or 1/4 damage of the normal spell.. something like that. (Just my guess/speculation on what will happen, no evidence).. on the other hand other games don't depend too much on staying out of melee range as a solo caster... only UO required that... I was very squishy!

 

I just remember in UO my mage was pretty tough with his staff....and was hoping I could do both types of damage. I will probably put charges on my staff but i want it to be used as a melee attack when not being used for it's charged. Also, you should hopefully get a bit of extra range with your staff since it's a long weapon.

 

If the deck system ends up not being fun, what will you do with combat?
If the deck system ends up not being fun because it is too chaotic or stressful, we’ll probably try out new options that are a mix of the deck system and the more traditional combat systems found in RPGs. We’ll probably also allow people to make all skills noble but fixed. If no one likes it still we can just rebalance the spells by making the combo spells more expensive to cast in terms of focus and reagents and fall back to a more traditional system. In other words, we can always just switch to the usual system without much work but we’d rather start off by trying to innovate, rather than copy.
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This makes me happy especially the part about going to a traditional system making the combo spells more expensive to cast in terms of focus and reagents. I would much rather have icons and cast the spells I want to cast.

I was thinking about being a mage for quite a while, but I've already mapped out a few weapon based skill sets lately instead because of cards managing spells. I already stated in the dev+ forum that I will stay positive until I see it first hand. However I'm being honest about not never wanting to play a spell caster with a deck system in place.

The only way I'll play a spell caster is if there is no deck system governing spells, otherwise I'm using weapon combat. I'm absolutely confident that my stance will not change based upon what I've heard.

 

Wow i really cant wait for this!

 

For a brand new character that hasn't spent any skill points at all, what skills are available to them to place in a deck? For the sake of discussion, let's assume the starting character has a starting weapon equipped. Is auto-attack their only option?


P.S. As far as terminology goes, I prefer the term actions instead of skills.

 

Typically NPCs would be given 'behaviors' that simulate various styles of attack, weapon usage. There are plenty of fun scripting languages to do this. You could arbitrarily set 'reaction time' or add a 'clumsiness' factor which fakes hitting the wrong key instead of the desired key.

NPC versus NPC fighting tests could be done in bulk without all the UI - just hook into the combat system code and attach a scripting language to it (and find a way to mimic target locations and other data that would normally be on screen).

 

Perhaps people could post their prefered keyboard shortcuts or key-combinations for use in combat. e.g. how you would prefer to select an available skill via the keyboard (unselect it or select another in case you change your mind). Target an enemy. Cycle through targets. Use the selected skill on the target. Use the selected skill on another skill for a combined effect. Go back into auto-attack only mode, etc.

I want to try out a separate USB numeric keypad where at least 1-9 (and probably others) map to skill slots for selecting, etc. Basically just the same as the top row of numbers, but with less distance to move hands/fingers.


Suggestion: Offer an option to configure keys to various in game actions (e.g. selecting a skill from the currently available set). Hide it in some config menu somewhere so beginners will have the standard keys and advanced players can do what works best for them.

 

There's a ton of difference even if there is no UI as the underlying system is entirely different. Forcing NPCs to use the same system allows you to have an automated test to play out any number of scenarios and compare that against metrics with human players of varying scenarios. As it is, NPCs do not use this combat system.

 

LOVE Magic the Gathering and think this is in the same vein. LOVE how you are taking a chance with it and that players will not be able to just hit a set rotation everytime in combat....soooooo boring that is. Keep it up!

 

Yep, they don't need a UI to test the core system out. Sure they could drive the UI with the appropriate UI hooks as well but as that's usually more expensive to do with an ever changing UI.

 

Did we ever get an answer as to what signifies the start of combat?

Can you sneak near an enemy and fire off an attack, or attack from out of an enemy's agrresion range? What if you want to attack a friendly or neutral target? Will all combat have to start based on proximity to foe/being openly attacked?

 

Note that a boring or mundane question may follow...

Given: Players start with 6 skills slots available.
Given: [some conditions can be met] to bring the total to 12 skill slots.
Given: Each level [of Instinct] allows for one locked skill slot.
Given: Max locked slots is 1/3rd the total available skill slots.
Given: A starting character* with their 6 skills slots available.

If the character buys 2 levels of Instinct they should have their maximum of 2 locked slots (6/3 = 2).
What happens if they then buy a level of Versatility? (7/3 = 2.33333ish), or 2 levels (8/3 = 2.667ish)?
Will they still have 2 locked slots, or will some rounding take place giving them the potential of 3 locked slots?
Will the Instinct skills' maximum level be capped based on the characters current number of slots?

* or any character with 6 slots and enough skill points to buy 2 levels of Instinct and 1 or more levels of Versatility.

 

My understanding is that you can force the hotbar to come up at any time. If you initiate an attack using a combat skill you've manually placed in your hotbar, that triggers "combat mode", which then clears out your hotbar and deals out your preconfigured default combat deck.

But yeah, it appears the game can also sense an enemy (hostile) MOB as you approach it and enter "combat mode" automatically.

 

Can't WAIT to test this system. Anyone ever play a game called Spellborn? They kinda of had a similar system that was based on Magic the Gathering. It was very interesting system since you never knew what you were going to get. Of course the decks were your own so you had some idea but not a definitive idea which made combat so entertaining.

 

1 - is the 'granted-skill' a skill that goes into your deck? If not how is it triggered?

2 - when it is 'used to push an existing skill into a random spot' do you select a skill currently on your combat bar and that skill gets pushed back into the deck (presumably to bring in a new skill) - or is it something that lets you define a 'skill-to-be-pushed' during deck creation, so that using Second Guess lets you put that specific skill 'into a random spot in the top five skills in the player’s deck'?