Mages have to run around too much.

Spell range is too short.
Spell CRITS are too small (unless you can stack)
This results in mages having to run around in a laggy game where exposing your back to your opponent results in taking extra damage.

Here's what I'm talking about:

Note that stacking the spells doesn't appear to do more DOT damage. Also note that although I'm not using a staff, staves do not do DOT damage so the impact of using a staff is really marginal.



In both the first and second video I really didn't have time to stand around and get the stillness bonus because the moment I came into range of a MOB that could see me I had to start casting or running. So that means I have to STACK first, then get in range, then stand still, then cast before I can get a large stack still bonus attack on anything.



When I took these videos I was level 12. My Fire Spells looked like this: (I've since moved up to level 13 and added 7 unrelated skill points to the focus tree, for those with a sharp eye.) Also, I'm using the Fire School because it's been marked as "completed" so there's no reason that anyone should say "well just wait for the other skills to be finished".


In my opinion, I should be able to kill off these Kobolds before they ever reach me, so long as I've had enough time to develop a good plan. Mages should be very strategic fighters, they shouldn't be good with surprises. They should run away when the odds are stacked against them. But in defined situations like this, they should NOT have to run.

What I think needs to happen is that some combination of the range increasing, the stillness bonus applying sooner and or more powerful (higher degree of CRIT bonus), for mages to stand a chance. Because I have no idea what the options are that the devs would consider, I'm not going to say exactly how I would do it. I personally wouldn't have a base system like this because it creates situations like what I've described where ranged fighters are either too powerful or too weak.

One more very important thing. You don't get this kind of time to run around in pvp so it's not even worth showing a video of that.

 

To me what's most interesting about the combat videos is that I WANT TO STAND STILL, but I can't without dying. If only there was a way to make casting these spells be more powerful by moving less. (or better yet, if you simply had to stand still to cast the spells at all, but they were powerful enough to get the job done)

 

100% agreed. The wizard thus far is helpless. Spells do not stop the mobs from getting to you. Spells do not do much damage 10-20 damage is the most I've seen on any of the spells I have cast (level 22)...

Hoping for some love for the casters soon.

 

so why not wear some plate armor for added defense? you know like a BATTLE mage?

 

Fizzle rate with plate is about 70%...I was going to do that but decided not to bother when I saw the percentages

 

dont wear full plate personally i wear legs and boots

 

As a mage i'm currently using a chain mail chest piece and leggings. If you use those fizzle lowering skills you'll be below 0% fizzle. While i don't really like using chain as a mage it's a option that we have. Also, defensive stance. It adds about 25 resistance for about a minute. I never have to move for anything. except for those satyr mages...fire damage hurts without fireproof...

 

How effective do you find spells like root?

And yea, even as a non magic oriented player I find it a bit silly that when I go against some elves, the fighter and archer is always more tougher to deal with than the mage. Not quite sure why magic damage is so weak.

 

That's a good point about defensive stance. But it doesn't last forever (and I think it should, at least while you're in combat mode). I don't like solutions where you have to cast 2 or 3 things first to be successful. Especially if they're not even going to last for a period of time where they "make sense".

For example, if I see 3 potential enemies, I shouldn't have to raise my defenses over and over again to fight them. It's already probably a hard enough battle as it is. So using Defensive Stance, and a Shield spell that may only last for seconds...that's taking up more of my time. So now I'm forced to run AGAIN just to create enough range to use half of my offensive spells.

 

I find that root is very helpful to keep someone from running away from you. So if you're not a mage, it's a great thing to do to mages because it keeps them from running.

It's not a great weapon for a mage because the moment you cast root, you're not casting a damage spell. So watch the videos that I posted in the OP again and try to imagine me casting root somewhere in the sequence. What exactly would be the point? By the time I cast one spell my opponent will simply be unrooted and charging at me again forcing me to run. For a mage, roots and stuns (that don't do damage) are really quite pointless.

EDIT: Envy just posted this video that seems relevant to the conversion about rooting. Here you can see a mage chasing someone and using root to keep them from getting out of range. I think this is really the only use for these types of spells for a mage. For a melee character build vs. a mage it acts the same way (it keeps the mage or archer from getting back out of your melee range again)

 

Give me more specifics. How long can you get a root to last? Can you extend the duration of the root already in place by casting it a second time? If it were to last long enough , it would seem useful to keep an enemy a good distance from you and prevent them from hitting you. Same with stun, to keep them from attacking.

All I know is my experience from playing a light armor skillset. I have to use a lot of defensive moves and dodges, but if I time everything right I'm effective. Depending on the enemy, from time to time I might have to run to regain an advantage, but as one would expect. Of course, I've also leveled up in light armor so have some damage resistance too.

 

It really depends on if we're talking about pvp or pve. They're two complete different worlds. I'm going to add a couple of pvp examples here for you once the youtube videos finish uploading. They're not great examples because I'm fighting against another pure mage that is obviously much higher level than I am (you can tell because his hit points barely move when I hit him with stacks of 5 for fire arrow and fireball), but you can still see some of the basic problems with roots and stuns as a mage weapon. In the case of the videos, I'm a mage so casting stun on me if you're also a mage is kind of pointless.

 

So you can see me fighting Envy. He's using stuns and roots and I really don't care (or shouldn't have in the first fight). Good job by him using douse.



In the second fight, I didn't care about the roots or stuns at all. Envy probably got wise to that and realized that he shouldn't care to cast root. What's the point, I want to stand there.

 

I've never used root thus far...not a big fan of earth magic...I like fire and ice and some air...I really hate to go in too many trees...like more of a specialized wizard...fire/ice or just fire whatever is possible...thus far no magic does damage...hoping to see higher damage output than warrior types get because mages are squishy and have to kill faster that warriors...I hope they remember that.

 

Stacking spells (not that i'm the biggest fan) seem to increase the rate of the dots. Maybe it's just me, but if I stack fire arrows the dots seem to go faster.

 

It doesn't, look at the videos in the OP. At one point I stack firearrow and then mouse over the icon in the upper left corner by my name. The fire arrow is doing the same DOT as it always does.

What stacking does is increases the CRIT chance for the spell. So you might stack 5 of something and get 10 points of damage, or if it crits you might get 60. It just increases your odds. I'm ok with that, and I think stacking is a good trade off based on the DPS war that the combat system is. But it will be interesting to see what the devs magic up over time. For all the unbalance we can find in R14, we're moving in the right direction (in my opinion) and each release seems to get slightly better.

 

You can get better defense against mobs. The light armor innate skills, but the earth magic innate skills are really good if want to pick up some earth magic. There is also the crystal shield that can absorb between 25 to 50 points of damage.

Still not super powered, however the healing ray skill does a lot more healing with a single glyph that it use to. That pleases me.

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The thing that sort of bothers me is the low damage each spell does. Although I wonder if this is a possible solution?

What to people think about this for mages:

RIGHT NOW:

Spells casting time is reasonably quick doing minor damage (to keep things fair).

POSSIBLE SOLUTION:

Let spells take longer to cast but do more damage. However to make up for the slower speeds of casting, let us have the option/ability to cast a second spell while we are casting the first one.

The result of casting mulitiple spells is that the first spell will take a while to cast, BUT when the first spell is launched then the second spell follows it resulting in a BIG BANG type damage all at one time.

EXAMPLE:

A person starts casting fireball which takes a little while to form, then the mage clicks on fire arrow which is a quicker cast spell. Then when the fireball shoots then the fire arrow comes quickly after. THIS IS JUST A HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE NOT WHAT I"M ASKING FOR. What i'm saying is let some spells take longer to cast but do more damage then we can combo by clicking a slower spell after it.

 

@Isaiah

1. I haven't tried crystal shield since QA testing last week. At that time, it was a huge exploit because it acted as a heal and a shield. Oh yeah, and it didn't require reagents and you could cast it on the run. It was basically an automatic 25 hit points (plus a shield) every time you cast it. Is is still like this?

2. I think healing is WAY TOO POWERFUL in general. No one uses healing potions because of this, and it's beyond annoying. I know they'll eventually fix this, but healing gets spammed everywhere and when you're playing in a DPS based game, that's really important. It basically makes healing (via life magic or death magic) required. I hate that probably more than anything else in the combat system.

3. I understand your proposed solution to making spells take more time so they are in turn more powerful. And that might work if they balance out some other aspects of the game (like range of spells, auto attacks, and the need to move and kite everything). But if we just look at a spell like Immolation (currently) it takes 3 seconds to cast. That's a VERY long time in PVP. 3 seconds in PVP means that wherever your opponent is they are going to be on top of you by the time that spell goes off. My point is that is going to be very tricky to balance that. If you make it too powerful then it becomes the spell everyone uses in the beginning and if they get it off then they basically win. If you make it take too long no one will ever get it cast before dying. But I agree with you that whatever the solution it probably involves make spells capable of killing people before they ever reach the caster.

 

DIFFERENT STRATEGY:
Although this type of thing would make magic different than archery. At this point both have differnt capabilities but the strategy is similar. If some spells could be cast like a delayed blast high damage spell followed up with a quick cast spell then mages could deal heavy damage all at one time. Also the player would have to learn the timing to use the right glyphs at just the right times. So there would be far more skill involved to be a good mage vs a dead mage especially in PvP.

So in PvP that would mean they need to stand still a bit longer and hope they don't get interrupted (or killed), but if they don't get interupted then the fool who got too close will be very sorry. In this case mages would only run around firing little shots here and little shots there if they cannot set up their real attack. The real stratigy for a slow but massive damage caster would be to go for a root, electrical stun, or slowness from cold then set up a massive attack combination... if they don't get the enemy to pause, then they can keep casting the quick but lower damage spells until they can set it up by pausing/stunning their opponent.

Another strategy for a slow but massive damage caster is to use quickness/speed to create distance to set up a massive combo, and then experienced fighters would not follow such a mage, but the inexperienced and those who get caught off guard will end up toasted. A third option is for a stealth mage who uses stealth then casts a series of spells when somebody isn't ready catching the opponent(s) off guard. Then there is the gust of wind and the teleport spell of Air magic that could create distance or give the mage a tempo to set up a big assault as well.

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PLAYER PRECISION/TIMING:

It also adds a layer of strategy and finesse for the pure mage. so just having skill points might make the mage good but it won't make the mage truly powerful. It is knowing the timing to launch your spells that will make you a master. If you get the timing wrong the second spell shouldn't register and you need to set up your opponent all over again. This will make PvP mages a skill based class.

PvP in SotA is fast paced, but there are ways for a mage to get set if they have to do a slower but more massive attack, and the slow paced high damage spells solves the problem of burning through expensive reagents too fast.

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In PvE mages would still need to make sure they have time to cast their spells, but if they do have the time by a root or having a party with them they could be quite effective in taking out opponents from a distance.

EDIT: Although this would mean that these bigger spells would likely use more manna. So focus conservation would be a bigger issue if you lack timing. Standing still will be ideal to reduce the focus cost.

 

It's hard to make new systems up without having the devs in the conversation. They seem like they prefer to change things one step at a time, watch what the players do with it and then adjust.

@Isaiah, I'm not sure I like all of those ideas, but I like the attempt to think about the problem in different ways.