PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

Well there is this: "Guild Warfare can include attacking / defending structures (think of a Castle Defense map for guilds)." And you could always try to monopolize the resources available in a metor/volcano event. AND we don't know what else there may be, but we have some people that complain this game is TOO structured and then others that say it's not UN-structured enough.

 

I like where we are going with this game !! Everything looks fine to me...
Except for this (and maybe the most important thing) :

Loot & Ransoms:


With SotA, we want something new, something close to reality in a fantastic world, a real RPG.
When I kill someone (in game uhuhuh) , I want to loot his corpse and get something from him/her.
When I die, I want my enemy to take what he deserves for killing me.
More looting from PvP will be the simplest way to balance the game and the economy.

I want people to be afraid of death, which would give more value to life. People might be more respectful to eachother if they know that haters and bad attitude players have more chance to be slain in the jungle when encountered.

Losing money instead of gear will give people good reasons to farm pigs and goblins over and over to pick cheap stuff to hold and drop when killed. Rich players will have a HUGE advantage over others.
Being rich should not mean being untouchable.

Nobody should be untouchable. Watch Game of Thrones and you'll know what I mean.

I'm not the kind of played who seeks power and gear. I want a new gaming experience close to reality, and more hardcore than what we used to see in the last 10 year.

I want a game (and looting system) closer to what we used to have in Ultima Online, not only : A KILL FOR JUNKS OR A BAG OF GOLD.

Thanks for the post.

 

You are correct, but I think there should be some instanced areas for PvP. (Separated from the rest of the game).

And I think a system that involves earning PvP Comms or tokens to spend on vendors would be great. At least that is an objective and more fun than looting 1 stupid item or getting a worthless ransom loll.

 

Even Ultima Online had to abandon this PvP models because it was killing the game.

Realism isn't always the same thing as fun, and PvE mobs don't do full loot.

Full loot would stop many players from ever participating in PvP. PvP wouldn't be fun if you can't find anyone to participate with you. This is a decent compromise.

 

Wait, you just said that warzones are bad because it breaks immersion and realism. But what if a game of capture the flag is more fun then rushing to a hex ?>

I'd rather play a map of Last Man Standing, Capture the Flag, etc with 2 teams of 8. Mishri, and his crew on one side and Dame Lore, Firelotus on my side and have at it.

 

I'm a little annoyed that the Dev+ thread was closed just after I made my post

I like all this but I do have one concern, I don't think items paid for with real money, especially at such a high premium as some of the people have paid here, should be able to be looted. Damaged yes but not looted. I think it would be quite wrong to have paid all this money only to have the game say "you died, to bad, bye bye glass sword you were carrying around" (for example)

 

The ultimate goal of a game is fun. Immersion is one of many tools to that end goal.

You don't need hyper realism for immersion.

 

Im all for full loot, however this is one thing I do agree on. Items that have been rewarded to backers or which have been purchased from the addon store should be blessed.

 

I think ransoming too should be taken out, but not because blah blah rich players blah blah. It's simply too complicated. It's one extra system you have to worry about, one extra dialogue box, one more "immersion breaker".

To the loot-minded folks: there's not gonna be full loot ever.

To Portalarium: Drop ransom completely. Just make an item drop. Not all items, just one, possibly a small stack, anything marked as "lootable". Maybe gold, too. These include by necessity all equipment and consumables, but not things like chairs to prevent scumming.

This way a looter will always get something useful, possibly a trophy to go with it (these should just be rare drops), and there's no crying about ransoms.

If all equipment is craftable, and there is no gear grind, this should never pose a problem.

 

Nice post Narf and welcome here !

I also fear that : A KILL FOR JUNKS OR A BAG OF GOLD.

I agree with you. But now, the ''compomise'' loot is really unpleasant.
The'' LOOT compromise'' almost ignores the wishes of the PvP player.

 

Why shouldn't there be full loot? It's a PvP area not fluffy unicorn and rainbow land. If I kill another PvPer (who has conceited to PvP) why should I not be able to take items that have been crafted?

Why should it be rare that I am able to take something that is of the floor in front of me? Why should items just magically disappear?

 

That's why.

 

Because the majority of players don't want it and it will hurt the game and community. End of story. There literally is no need to continue to rehash what has been established. This shouldn't and won't happen.

 

Heu ?

You base on what??

I understand that the game will not be Full Loot (for PvE and PvP players together)
It is the desire of Portalarium, not necessarily the majority of people.
It's two different things.
In fact, we do not know what the majority wants.

In fact, the only information we have is the following: know.

PVP - Consensual - No Looting 29 vote(s)11.7%
PVP - Consensual - Full Looting 48 vote(s)19.4%
PVP - Consensual Or Not - No Looting 5 vote(s)2.0%*
PVP - Consensual Or Not - Full Looting 112 vote(s)45.2%
PVE - Only - No Looting 30 vote(s)12.1%
PVE - Only - Full Looting 24 vote(s)9.7%

And it is not very scientific.

As you other information that we do not?

Do you have any other information that we do not?

 

Not quite, UO created a safe area because that's what people wanted. They then introduced AoS making PvP item led with insurance to try and encourage people back to Fel......the people who didn't want to PvP stayed in tram and the PvPers quit the game because it was far to safe and boring........there was nothing to gain from a kill.

SotA already has the safe zone.....so why make the same mistake EA did with UO?

Believe me, I bet there are more true PvPers who are desperate to see a full loot system similar to the early days of UO than not. This game got my attention not because of RP or the Story....but because of the chance to see the return of true hardcore PvP with similar quirks to early UO.

 

I was thinking about the ransom system.

Maybe the looting player can increase the cost of the ransom, up to 2x the starting price.(the cap might not be necessary)

It becomes a gamble.

I loot Bowen's ear, ransom is 5,000 gold, I pay an additional 5,000, now if Bowen wants his ear it will cost him 10,000. If he doesn't want his ear (he declines to pay ransom) my $5,000 goes to him. If He does want it, he pays the full 10,000 and I'm out nothing. And you can choose any amount to increase it, in 1 gold increments... so I can always add 1337 to my ransoms

So The cap might not be necessary, because if an ear is normally 5,000, and I put up 1,000,000 well you just got 1 million gold, and you only had to give up a body part or your favorite piece of gear.

This can help issues of ransom being too low for market price, you can push it up a bit so you can earn a bit more.

 

Based upon RG and DS's statements about the numbers they saw in UO and how it ultimately drove players away. About other MMO developers who said they did studies and found almost no one wants it. Based upon the poll in this very forum where 80% wanted to break away from how UO ran, and only 20% wanted a clone of UO's systems.

So we do know what the majority of players want.

 

And I don't agree with it.

 

Personally, I like the proposed system. I'm sure it will change over time, but it's going to get there.

I'm going to break my own rules here and post an Opinion, which I don't usually do, but perhaps it can help bring some things together.

For those of you (and there are a lot of posts here, i'm not talking to anyone in particular) suggesting Full (or more) Loot, may I suggest you take a moment, breathe and go back and Really Read Chris's posted reasons for not having full loot and address THOSE issues. They are clearly described.

It's not about Risk VS Reward, its not about the PvE Crowd who doesn't want to go.. Nobody is trying to ruin your fun here or make your effort less worthy. There is a true set of issues that can be measured by having a Full Loot system. These Things he wrote WILL Happen. So instead of trying to convince a bunch of people to see your point, stop for a second, READ the cause and effects and come up with ideas to address those issues.

I think everyone understands where everyone is coming from at this point. We are all passionate, and that is GOOD. It's not about changing peoples minds per se, it's about creating solutions of Cost of Balance (Programming), Economy and Equipment Value and coming up with middle ground that the majority will like.

Again, I think what they have is a great idea to start with, it CAN be tweaked once people see how it works and maybe are not so intimidated by it.

Happy Megapost Day Everyone.

 

The majority of those players don't even PvP so it wouldn't effect them anyway.