Reduce posibilities to grind and exploit like Mode switch!!!

While that is indeed true for most games I'd argue against that for this specific title.
This since the conversion rate of the store is key they need lots of players that would pay for convenience (obsidian potions etc), preferably those with more spendable margins. I.e. Casuals who work too much.

So there should be smaller fun stuff for them, preferably elsewhere than where you design stuff for the more hardcore.

 

You are right, but I was talking about the game design not the revenue mechanic. They are doing exactly that. Designing the game for the players and the cash shop for the payers.

E.g. a whole part of PVE... the city building part of the sandbox was turned into CASH SHOP CONTENT for casuals. Still hardcore players bought POTs etc. It was catered to those type of players who spend a lot but not necessarily play as much.

However they need to make sure that working a minimum wage job and cashing into the game, does not generate more worth than playing the game.

 

Playing the game effectively and using intended functions of the game to master skills and play efficiently is completely different from exploiting a bug or borked game mechanic. When the devs cave to the mob and suggest "it's a bug" and then nerf the game to shut people up it almost always results in a cut your nose off to spite of your face type of situation. If, and I really hope they're not doing this, but if the devs are selectively targeting highly skilled players and purposefully nerfing individual player chances for loot drops because reasons... the consequences will be dramatic.

 

The bottom line is, do you want people to group go to some area to fight a boss or do you want they to wait in line with 3 other groups to fight the boss?

I don't see how having wait in line or cut the line to fight the boss will be any immersive than having a group of people enjoy the game content among themselves.

At the end of the day, we just want to enjoy spending time playing the game. Last thing anyone want here is to have their game play restricted just because someone says so.

Waiting for a mob respawn among other parties ain't something people enjoy spending time on. If wanting quicker respawn so that they can play is really causing grief to other people, then perhaps, the priority should be making multi party system and content so that people don't have to wait?

 

Trump did NOT win the popular vote. He won the Electorial College. Just to keep the facts straight.

 

I can tell you they are not. I've been banned, warned etc. for many many things - but never for playing the game.

 

I am totally against any form of meritocracy !

I don't want anything gifted but reachable with moderate investment of time and skill.
And I feel not just for this game, things went completely mad to satisfy players who are somewhat addicted playing 10 hours a day or more.
I don't find it good if developers give them more causes to do so, in the end its not about playing a game, but substitute "something".

If people play more they should do it for fun and not for efforts. It should be enough to invest a healthy and normal time to play to get into all aspects of every game.

If we go further with this love to empower oneself and compete each other who can be more powerfull this tend to be no motor for creativity anymore , but burn outs and less friendly handling with each other as we can see all western society's are suffer from.

And I am also stand for that the stronger individuals always have to take care and look for the weaker, like it is about traffic.
Drive a car and you need to take more care of the weaker traffic's like motorcycles, bycycles and pedestrians.
If you are on bycycle you have to take care of pedestrians.

Where is the sense of caring about the weaker players in this community? And why is nobody really caring and only orientating at the top edge?

That said, i said enough about what I think. No accusation or wanting people to restrict playing the game as it is intended, but from exploiting.
When I talk about exploiting I mean to get the best out of it and not about abusing the system, but i think mode switch is abusing it, but it's not forbidden , that is not what I want to say.
No native english speaker as most of you know and when i search for the word what describes to reduce everything to optimization effectiveness etc... Google said "exploit".
I know it's a phrase for abusing gamemechanics in gaming mostly used for not allowed actions, but it stands for abusing itself allowed or not.

 

Gotta admit, that's interesting . In the non-gaming world, exploit is not always used as a pejorative.

 

i am tired of seeing the same thing over and over. Im Adv Level 108 atm ( gets out hater Shield ) and i got there playing fairly , does that mean i exploit, or does it mean i have more time to play than most people?

All the time i see posts about people wanting to balance the game towards casual players, Why cant people just leave Everyone else to play the game the way they choose to as long as its within the rules and doesnt directly impact your own gameplay?

Sometimes it feels like the arguement, ''Mom, the next door neighbours kid got the newest action Figure, why cant i have one?''.

 

You are coming on pretty strong here. Why?

There is no evidence to support what you are outlining there, and plenty of evidence against.
Nor did I suggest, nor did my posts that you've quoted suggest anything along those lines.

So I'm a bit confused where the misunderstanding came in?

Please note the differences in what I wrote in the passage you quoted and what you wrote, highlighting:
"Being too creative with getting much more efficient returns than intended by the makers of the game is pretty much how most exploits start. If in doubt, report, and all of that jazz."

So again I'm confused about what the point of contention is? If you are using it as intended you'll be fine, if you are using game mechanics beyond their designed intent to get more returns then you are not fine.
The problem lies in knowing what the intended mechanism is, which creates a gray zone, if one thinks that one is in that gray zone it is much more safe to send a PM to the community manager / QA lead, and ask them politely if it is OK to do X to get Y.
I've done that several times and got fast and clear replies, which either have said Arrrrgh STOP doing that or please continue it is by design or on the rare occasion it is ok but we are fixing it in next patch.

 

When you stated that Portalarium sometimes takes personal corrective actions against players - I read that to mean exactly what it implies. I'm not trying to talk around the subject of farming or grinding and I'm happy to call a spade a spade - why even bother with subtle attempts at suggesting hardcore play can somehow be confused with the exploitation of game mechanics. This OP is exactly the sort of topic that lights the forums on fire and then folks turn it into a haves vrs have-nots conversation.

Highly skilled players farm the bejezzus out of The Rise and bosses and it just so happens they're also going to have superior chances at rare loot by doing so. There is no exploit here and there is no reason to ask a dev if what's happening is ok.

 

or more accurately, "Mom, the next door neighbor's kid got the newest action figure, make them give it to me and then tell them they are bad for getting that and hurting my feelings and self esteem by having something I want'

 

The OP and my respponse was about the switching from friends to multi, and back, and again, and again, to reset spawns faster than intended by the scene design.

To which I responded that yes the devs are aware of that and yes that will get fixed later but not now.

Of course they do, almost any and all MMORPG with an intent at a player economy is doing that.
Warnings, timeouts, temp bans etc are all part of the package with a player economy.

There is nothing controversial nor sinister about that.

Again, adding a new topic not mentioned above???
Of course hardcore play can be confused with exploitation, that is why they repeatedly mentions that if the metrics alarm goes off they go invisible into the scene and check out what is happening.
Which is a good thing.
It means that they don't rely on metrics alone, this so that the innocent hardcore can continue with whatever they are doing, while the farm bots or real exploiters can get caught.
The devs have apologized when someone has been caught by the automated systems and temp suspended until a dev could look at it. (The player had been farming wolf heads for weeks and then crafted and sold it all in one session - thus the gold payout of the scene went bonkers visavi what it would normally give out).
So sometimes we players are using legitimate game mechanics but so efficiently that the klaxxons go off.
Which is a frustrating but eventually a good thing since it means if there was a genuine exploit they couldn't destroy the economy while the devs are sleeping.

Again there is nothing controversial nor sinister about that.

Then don't feed the fire. So far it was only @Stundorn making such conjecture. That is a very small fire compared to the ones we have on a weekly basis.

Which is OK....and no one said they should so no need to bring that in here? I only said you should if you feel you are in the gray zone. Very hard to misconstrue that statement.
Are you conflating the position of @Stundorn with my position? Because just in case you are then please note that I'm definately not arguing for his position. I'm simply adding info that is in the public space to answer the questions posed by the him and other posters above.

If you had stated any questions I knew the answer to then I would do the same for you.
Do you want me to find the links so that you can check the validity of my statements if that will make you more comfertable with them?
Like the part about klaxon metrics and checking in on players can be found in the Tuesday Tech Talk with Chris.

 

The devs did say at one point that they were talking about further limiting boss spawns. So its something already in their radar.

I don't know if they did this, how it would work with mode switching, but I have to say I don't think this is what the intention was at all. Its just an outgrowth of the idea of selective multiplayer, which is used even in MPO to manage population in scenes. This is used in MPO for storytelling purposes, so you can be alone in certain scenes where the story requires it, and other scenes can be full of players. Mode switching was an easy thing to implement from that model, and is just based on the idea that some players don't want to be social, so why not let them. But you're creating a picture of the game where its not fun to play MPO for resource gathering, so players are forced into FPO/SPO. Don't think that was the intention at all.

 

If the intention was to create a more immersive story experience then why the need for the shared economy? If the devs would divorce the multiplayer economy from friends and single player modes, I'd buy into the altruism of player immersion - as it stands, the separate game modes point to farming/grinding as framework for player retention strategies. And that's ok! I get it, and now that I've accepted it, I suffer the switches from Friends to Multiplayer modes when farming bosses so everyone can achieve higher averages for loot and experience gained.

I don't see mode switching as an exploit, I see it as a pain in the ass and I see it as using game mechanics exactly as they were designed to be used; and that is to farm/grind resources for the shared economy. I'd much rather have an independent multiplayer economy and mechanics that enforce truly regional gameplay... but those things will never be possible so long as the shared economy exists.

 

@Duke Avery,

Not sure how creating separate game economies for each mode would have made the game more immersive ? It would have just made more work for them. The point wasn't that they created the modes for immersion, its that instancing is built into how the game works at every level, and it was easy to use instancing tech to make the game modes.

Yea, and I don't think the "pain in the ass" gameplay you're describing is intentional; that's the point.

 

I have never heard any dev say the separate game play modes exist to enhance player immersion - I have heard them say during livestream events that players are free to switch between modes if they go into a scene and they don't feel like sharing the farming zone or they want a particular node to themselves. That's been said during livestream events and it was talked about quite a bit when the PVP zones were first made multiplayer only.

Immersion is great, and I encourage everyone to find enjoyment when they immerse themselves into the game - the multiplayer economy is not immersive - it's a grind that encourages player advancement and player market trading. The shared economy is anything but immersive and along with experience gained it promotes mode switching.

 

@Duke Avery,

Never said that modes exist for immersion, just that instancing does.

My point again about the modes is that its not intended that MPO sucks so much for resource gathering that you feel forced to go into SPO.

 

It does indirectly

I know a player who played a lot and also has a few GM and sure a high level, but he isnt asking for more power or exclusive content but caring for everyone else helping out and he join or organize RP Events.
I dont accuse you @HogwinHD if you do so. Why do you feel accused. It's about that the game shouldnt take you or others who spent a very lot of time to grind not as a measure and Standard.
But a lot of these people complain if they would reduce it to lets say max 10k xp per 24hours or something like that.
Do you find playing more than 4 hrs a day is good for you, maybe your childs, wife, dogs etc...
But if it comes to x Million xp per skill to raise most people haven't the patience and will to see this as a long term character development, but rush through it.

You dont get it, sorry.
I never are envy about this.
I just dont want this is the measure we all have to deal with, if we want to play all aspects of the game.
@Duke Avery i dont care about lit a Fire, i say my opinion, you are all doing the same asking for more pvp, more sandbox or 5 Minute respawn timers for bosses.
And i am curious if you like modeswitching or killing a Boss 10 times?
Ya i know you like it, but why? For the effort or chance of a rare Drop or because it's so overwhelming good gameplay and really challenging you repeating it over and over.
Would a 72h spawn timer not get you doing other things or, if there arent other things ask the devs for more funny and challenging content.
No you ask for 5 Minute timers, bc you have already accepted and give up to ask for better gamemechanics and content?
Please explain

I dont feel i am doing this.
Nor in RL neither in games.
But i know what you want to say and i agree it's sort of human Nature, but it feels it's gone overestimated on all aspects. Having Family in Canada, oh Canada... ;-)
And hey i often liked what some hardcore gamers of you say, it's not against you individual!!!

 

One thing I can think of is Richard talking about "wanting to keep players moving". He did not want players to sit in the same spot idle waiting for resources to respawn. Not sure if that ever got implemented but it was something he was certainly passionate about. The logging in and out of modes would seem contrary to that idea and goes against just that, and almost could be called an exploit, but the game allows it so it is not.