Use Based systems

You still have to go to the trainers to get the new skills so pretty much the same there? At least it was during the weekend.

 

I thought I understood the hybrid use-based skill system but after reading @Chris post again and again got confused again, because of the choice of words and my lack of english language. So I will try to write up what I understood from the wall of text and hope someone can correct me if I get something wrong.

We have two big skill groups, crafting and combat, that will no influence on each other anymore. Each skill group has a seperate "to-be-spent" pool of experience. The pool for combat will be filled only over killing mobs or quests. The crafting pool will be filled over crafting or gathering. The pools have no cap and can be filled as much as we want if we switch off all skill trainings. The way of earning experience (XP) did not change with the new skill system. So PVP will not gain any XP for the combat pool. I hope this is so far correct? Will repairs and salvage gain XP for crafting?

Okay next part the skill trees. All skill trees consist of skills. Those skill trees have different skill tiers that depend on each other. To advance to a higher skill tier you need to fit a requirement of skills in the lower tier. Each tier has at least one skill. An unlearnt skill has level 0. To learn a skill you have to visit a trainer which unlocks the skill on level 1. Now you can train this skill up to level 100 and above. Starting from level 80 the skill the gained benefit is really small regarding the amount XP you have to use to gain the next level and this will be even less after level 100. Level 1, 10, 20, 40 and 80 will unlock glyphs for active skills. Passive skills will gain their benefits different and not each level must give a benefit. So far everything seems clear. The confusing part is the way how to level up a skill.

To achieve a progress in an active skill we need to use it and to have XP in the pool. For passive skills we need to use a related active skill. I don't want to know the details of the relations, that is something we players can figure out of our own. What is confusing is progress within a skill level. To reach the next skill level you need to put a specific amount of XP out of the pool into the skill. You get the XP for an active skill over the use of the skill. The amount of XP you can push into a skill per use is limited tied to the skill level. So there is always a minimum number of uses need to reach the next level. Okay, but now I get confused.

Is it correct that the use of a skill takes out a amount of XP of the pool. This amount is shared under the one active skill and all activated passiv skill and dependant skills or is this amount only tied the one skill and all related and dependant skills take out their own share based on their levels and math behind?
So if I use an active skill and don't want to train it, will that have influence on the amount of XP the passiv skills get or can't I train the passive skills without training also an active skill?
Is there a chance to have unused XP after the share? What happens with this XP?

Now the decay. The skill system has an decay over time which is not related to the playtime. The decay will only get applied on death or gaining skill points. Does skill points mean here a full level or the XP after using a skill? Gaining XP without training a skill will not apply the decay? Is that even possible?
The decay will happen on each learnt skill. As long as you don't apply the decay, only max. two days of decay will be applied. So if you are away two days or a year, the decay is the same after that.

Did I understood everything correct? I hope @Chris can at least answer me some of the questions without telling us to much about the math behind.

 

Seriously? That sucks so much I can't even describe it. My only consolation was the thought that skill training would now be relegated to when you wanted to boost efficiency. So basically, they're taking my two least favorite advancement methods and combining them? I really hope that is NOT the long term plan.

 

You only have to learn a skill from a trainer once. It improves in the field rather than having skill points to spend every level.

 

hi docdoom77. There are some things after hearing about them I am not happy about either, but I guess I will reserve my thoughts until I have tried it all out. I think we can still get this system to a point where we enjoy it, but of course it may not be this release or even the next. We will have to iron out all the details of it. So I feel your pain, but perhaps we all have to have some pain to get it working the way that is best for this game.

 

I like the concept of trainers for unlocking skills especially unique specialist trainers for high level skills

 

Yeah. I get it Lum. I just can't stand it. The entire idea that you are incapable of learning a new skill on your own drives me absolutely crazy. If people are unable to learn new things without being trained, how do new things ever come into existence? On top of that, I find it clunky and frankly un-fun to have to go search out trainers to learn new skills.

I guess, without any evidence, I got it in my head that a use-based system wouldn't require trainers. For me, it's like we've taken the most tedious and unfun ideas for leveling and combined them. It's more than a little upsetting.

 

As far as i can see in the Q&A server, its just a different way to advance skills

 

I am reserving judgement until after I tried it. I like use based skill systems so I am excited to see how it works in SotA.

Having to go to a trainer to learn a new skill actually sounds logical to me. If I want to learn how to cast a fireball, someone should show me how.

But I will have to try it...

 

Well I don't mind the idea of trainers to first acquire a particular element like fire, ice, etc but really I'd like there to be more to it. It is too simplified to just leave it at that. Where is the adventure into the field of learning fire for example?Skill trees are here, but what goes after could be more. Oh well I will wait and see.

 

And what if, you want to learn to swing your sword in a more defensive manner? Might you not learn that entirely on your own? Not all skills are complex magical formulae.

And even if they were, someone had to invent those spells and skills... from scratch. Without a trainer.

 

HA!

You're very, very optimistic, young padawan. I like optimists.

But otoh, you should know that any (large-ish) player pool can and will metagame and theorycraft endlessly, till they figure out mostly everything, by reverse engineering any mechanic and every system. And even if they won't find every diminutive detail, they will figure out most formulas and approximate values. You can bet RG's robot on that. And we both know you'd win the bet.

Joe H. Random gamer may play absent mindedly and oblivious of the core mechanics of his char advancement, but most die-hard players will min/max anything, anywhere - especially if PVP is involved.

 

Chris: I'm really excited about this new system and have not tested it yet. I will be playing all weekend tho.

@Chris Question: How do slugs work with the new system or have they been removed? In the other system they were one of the more annoying aspects to my character since they forced me to dilute my specialization class I was trying to create. I hope we can just have as many spells as we want rather than have a need to add more spells to our deck to keep from getting slugs. I like to focus on 1-2 trees only (fire and ice), so I never can find enough spells to effectively remove slugs from my rotation.

 

Sure you are right but maybe a system in which you can learn some new skills on your own and train others more complex ones would be too complicated, I don't know. It would be cool though.

 

Pvp?

 

Min/Maxing was already happening. Every PvPer, each release, would look like clones because they all wore/used the same armor/glyphs.

This is a generalized statement not directed at Katrina-A lot of Non-PvPers worry about PvP. This game doesn't have non-consensual PvP.

 

Slugs are still part of the system when you use randomly dealt glyphs.

Adventuring levels are still lurking in the background, and slugs still show up if you don't manage your deck size. As the exact procedure is on the QA server and access is restricted, I really can't say much more. But the system has been modified slightly from it's current use, in what I think is a more positive way. But it means you need to be a bit more diligent as well.

 

Ah, thanks for the info jirc! I'm not happy to hear they are still there. I would go fully locked deck if the focus penalty wasn't there. I can get around slugs in the current system, but end up with a whole lot of junk attacks that I do not use. Hopefully, there will be some more thought on slugs. They seem like punishment to me.

 

The use-based skills are a great addition to the game. I messed around with them on the QA server this past weekend and had fun. It gave the feeling of a little more immersion/connection to what I was doing with skill usage. That's a big plus. Getting more indicators of progress is nice too. Thumbs up so far. Nice work.

Things I am interested in watching development on with this system include: 1) what defines a use - will I still be able to stand at the trainer whiffing with my sword in the air and getting points, 2) how prerequisites will work in the future, and 3) how combo skills tie into this. I understand combos are based off the level of existing skills, but it seems a shame to not be able to level cool combo skills in a use-based system too.