Who hates the combat system?

Calling the characters as it is right now forgetful or like they have alzhiemers is absolutely NOT a fallacy.

As the current system stands, I could be standing still, 20 yards away from you, in combat mode, and waiting for a certain spell to be drawn to my hand. I know that spell, I have learned that spell through practice and experience and skill points, but I can't actually call on that spell to cast it, even standing still and unmolested, until it is drawn into my hand.

Forgetful characters is completely accurate. Comparing it to reflexes is the fallacy here, you are not reacting to your opponent OR the battle circumstances in any way shape or form. You are simply casting the spells or abilities that you happen to "remember" as they drop into your hotbar.

That is not tactical, it is not strategic, it has nothing to do with reflexes other than how fast you can move your mouse around your hotbar to play whack-a-mole.

Let's keep our fallacies straight here.

 

Ok, now that's a good argument

Maybe if our card hands had a timer on them, where if no cards were used and the Character was out of war mode, then the hand could then entirely revert back to the chosen preset cards, before becoming random once more... like maybe when the first combat card is chosen from the pre-optioned card set, then they begin their nifty "whack~a~mole" alzheimer's sequencing challenge?...
~Time Lord~

 

to be fair, whack-a-mole does take some pretty good reflexes

I get the impression that's not the type of reflexes that are being talked about though

 

Is your character ready to cast a spell the instant they remember it? Reflexes here includes readiness.

Yes, this system needs to drastically improve. The bar should fill up faster, and be based on more on context, so you don't get a bunch of ranged spells at a hand-to-hand distance or vice versa. It needs to improve in a lot of ways so it works closer to what its trying to model.

And like Drocis has been saying, the skills should drift to being more qualitative than just quantitative, so instead of 'whack-a-mole', you're actually making some meaningful choices in battle. But its currently not really more of a button mashing exercise than if all your skills were on the screen at once.

But it essentially is modeling reflexes. Hopefully they can iron out some of the problems with it.

 

you know Time Lord, as much as I have disagreed with lots of other things you have to say about the combat system, I really like that idea.

It would certainly fit much more in line with the whole "realistic chaos of combat" theme, because a good trained fighter always has an opening strategy, and its only during the fight that everything goes to sh*t

I feel like your idea right here is a compromise I could certainly tolerate as a step in the right direction

 

I agree with most of what you say here.

As far as not being more of a button mashing exercise than a static hotbar... that is true. However, while you mash the same buttons, at least with a static bar you have the choice of what to use and when, thats the main difference. Otherwise I agree with you completely.

I'm not against the SPIRIT of the system, I think it could be made to work, but like you say, it needs a LOT of improvements from what it is right now. And since the devs are so happy with it right now and have not mentioned any of those other things you mention, I worry we will not see most of those improvements and we will be stuck with a system that is basically the same as what we have now, just with more skill points or skill trees or whatever.

 

Its better than 1,2,3,4 wait for it, wait for it, wait for it, 5!

 

as is? it's really not.

right now its more like:

*click* - not the spell I would have liked to open with but it'll do
*click away a slug* - slug, wheres my fireball?
*click* - sure i guess i'll cast that, he's at range so i cant use the melee attacks on my bar
*click* - finally a fireball! a little late though since he closed to melee range and i'm taking damage now... wheres a heal?
*click away a slug* - ok.. i really need something useful here
*click* - not a useful skill at all right now but better than wasting time clicking more cards away
*click* - ah good a lifedrain! oh wait i'm dead.



..... yeah... thats a lot more fun than 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... repeat

NOTE: I am not saying static hotbars are fun, but they are certainly a better option than the system in place now lol

 

Lot of it boils down to taking the time to set up your deck - maybe you can't do a fireball at the moment but your placed enough fire arrows to compensate ...

I was running around and refused to "fixed skills" and wear "heavy armor" - I beat most of the inexperience players - the ones that had played r8 and know the system fairly well - I could not even hurt ... one person I played fixed his deck - to mimic a standard mmo set up (it worked well for him) ...

so I think a lot of it has more to do with learning the system (taking the time that - however I understand that for some, time is too valuable to spend learning a combat system)

 

"Whack~A~Mole"
Well, some things hit home. I was assaulting a rocky hill once in the deserts of California where there were 3 guys dug in behind 3 main rock positions at the top of the hill. The rest of my squad was all pinned down and I had made it to the center main rock with one of the enemy guys on the other side of it. I had run out of ammo getting there and had used my spare bullet I always kept in my pocket shooting one of the other guys behind the other rock. So I jumped over the rock right on top of this privet from Fort Riley Kansas and was about to but stroke him with my rifle between his eyeballs... which were about the size of half dollars (thus the Whack~A~Mole that reminded me of this). Half way through my striking him, I thought to myself, "I'm not really in combat and I'm going to kill this guy", so I diverted my strike to his helmet, which he still later complained about. I took his rifle and was going to shoot the other guy, but he got me first (playing laser tag with 2000+ guys and 300 tanks is allot of too much fun )... My squad saw my move and took the hill, but all I could do was sit there and watch the rest of the battle while this privet kept whining at me about hitting him and taking his rifle away...
I don't recall his name, but I guess he's my Whack~A~Mole story now Lol... (thousands of laser tag battles... what a brave C-Ration hero I am aye? )

Having a plan and having the opportunity for that plan to work dose seem to be the subject that daunts us here. "a pre-set of cards does seem to be one answer" but I'm certain that there's more to our rhetoric to be had. There's still the subject of potions as cards and there may be some other solution to the deck with more ease of play, yet in keeping with our development teams pathway they've shown to us that our game will be. I sure hope Alchemy is much more than just a craft vendor's job...
I'm not too happy about potions being cards within the same random deck unless there is a combat styled Alchemy skill. I see them as closely related with combat engineers if combined with rogue skills... or the Ninja Assassin with a belt full of tricks.

Whack~A~Mole... what a thing to get an idea from... Kudos back at ya Preachyr AdamZax!
~Time Lord~

 

I like this idea quite a bit. It makes a lot of sense to be able to use a carefully picked skill as your first strike against the enemy. This combined with a little bit of situational bias on what is dealt and the combat system could really prove to be amazing.

 

This was my first release I spent a lot of 1 day learning the randomness of the deck sytem. I would have a couple duels and tweak. Off and on by last night I was getting more solid. Now the randomness I had duels I slaughtered a guy in, my cards popped perfectly. The same guy later and I'm dealt all slugs or no attacks, so I get slaughtered. 1 thing the decks do not do is allow perfect planned maxed attacking, combo 1 then 2 etc. I enjoyed the fact I could be completely destroyed by a player that I had beat a few times. That's more challenging to me than the perfect cookie cutter build and rotations. It also flustered me to no end having decks dealt out of where I literally could do nothing but kite and die. The system is solid but it needs tweaking. Having no heals pop at all when 3 are loaded over a couple minute battle is actually not random battle "forgetfulness" I know I need a freaking heal, where is it lol. I guess hybrid will most likely be the likely choice for decks after release. I see static bars going away and pure random decks not quite manageable enough. Sorta hurts the 3 type system.

 

After actually using them in the builds over the weekend I'm not as 100% against the inclusion of potions as glyphs anymore. I guess if they're gonna go for it with the system, they may as well go all in.

 

I say do what makes sense for the game / no need for too much tedium if walking outside the line a little makes your game 100% better

 

Anyone with half a brain can *understand* what the Devs are attempting here. I don't think that's the argument. The argument is in the way it was implemented. It distracts you from the visual action by demanding your full attention on the hot key bar. If you're wearing leather or plate armor, you can also easily fill up with Slugs as of R9.

Many times I've ended up with a full set of Slugs, a heal pot locked in slot 1, a Focus pot locked in slot 8. THAT is what people are likening to having "forgotten" how to fight. Somehow my Avatar is standing there, mid-melee, utterly unable to do anything but get beat on. That is obviously a BAD THING to anyone but the most blatant apologist.

Yes, we DO see there are positive merits to the current combat system. Currently the negatives far outweigh the positives...

 

Exactly

 

Sorry but I was hoping that the combat system would be more like Ultima Online. I'm really not getting into the card system at all. I've tried to get into it and like it, but it's just not happening.

 

I don't have that experience. I have 2/2 brain. Get it?

You should try other skills if archery isn't your thing.

Screenshot001


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I don't see what you are talking about. If it is as you say then how did i fight people and turn around, run backwards and still attack people without losing a step? I used the deck system not a locked tool bar.

Honestly if you are constantly watching the bar and are confused then you didn't do something right

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Don't worry your not alone... Im sure many people came because of UO so I'm.not sure why they made so many bad changes but hope they fix it.