Why do you PvP? Just asking to see why people want to fight eachother?

A hostile takeover is a type of corporate acquisition or merger which is carried out against the wishes of the board (and usually management) of the target company.
How it works/Example:

In a hostile takeover, the target company's board of directors rejects the offer, but the bidder continues to pursue the acquisition.
A bidder may initiate a hostile takeover through a tender offer, which means that the bidder proposes to purchase the target company's stock at a fixed price above the current market price. Another method of hostile takeover is acquiring a majority interest in the stock of the company on the open market. If that is impossible or just too expensive, a bidder may initiate a proxy fight, which means that the bidder persuades enough shareholders to replace the management of the company with one which will approve the acquisition.

their are many times said company is then sold piece be piece. obviously it is not the exact same thing but then again I dont fight liches in the woods either in real life.

 

The hostility in this is against the board of directors and not the owner. For a hostile takeover to happen you need at least 50% of the company (Some countries you actually needs 75% of the company). But this cannot in anyway be compared to someone that kills someone and steal his possessions.

 

well since I was responding to this quote

I do feel it appy's. as for killing and stealing in real life , it happens. I said it is not the exact same thing but this is a game we can always flip the coin and start complaining that their are monsters in SOTA that can not be found in real life, i know not of any linches, demons, trolls, i certainly dont see fire balls, chain lighting, earth quake spells. why is it on one side of the coin you all call for what would happen in real life yet when it suits your agenda wish for thing you will never see?

 

Disagree with everything you say.

-Attacking/Killing player before their screen fully loads.
Sounds like a credible tactic to me especially in group fights. I expect systems will be tweaked anyway so a player either doesn't appear or is invulnerable until loading is complete.

-Upon death using Exit Game/Login method for full health and no death penalty for the purpose of winning a group fight in an unfair manner.
There is no 2nd place in PvP.......2nd place means you lost. From a personal perspective I will look to use every game mechanic available in order to give me an 'edge'. Once again this is Alpha and I expect there will be logout timers. The current build should not be viewed as complete.

-Camping spawn points.
Absolutely nothing wrong with this. Its actually called tactics.

-Killing players changing skills.
I would do this every day of the week. I expect at some point there could well be town guards etc. If you flag for PvP you have to accept that you can't only fight on 'your' terms......very often you should expect the unexpected.

-Zoning in on a player repeatedly to fight. (These players are currently taken care of by killing them before the screen loads)
Zoning will be removed from the game for general players anyway.

Also, in my opinion none of the above apart from killing a player changing skills would qualify you to be classed as a PK. Most of what has been stated is just players using tactics and swinging game mechanics in their favour.

 

Comparing the first world with its globalized economy, its full reaching goverments with full present military force (both police and military) and its inhabitants fed and busy with a medieval world is a bit misbiased. Ford dealers are not killed everyday because people have a lot to lose and little to win... what if what you may win against is greater than what you may lose? it's all matter of risk vs reward

Keira's hostile takeover is an example of how human violence still exists. And it can be done to kill a company and steal its possesions, so... human beings keep fighting in the level they agree to. Also, let's not forget that killing, stealing and reselling does happen. We just don't see it as much as Ford dealers

I don't think there's a need to go comparative. Some people doesn't want to be forced into risk in game, and somebody does. Let everybody choose and hope for devs to fit the risk demands.

 

Okay lets recap this from the beginning then:

Well now we have the complete history of the thread:

Hostile takeover of a company the shareholders still get paid for their shares, normally 10-30% over market value. How can you even compare that to something where the "victim" gets nothing?

Don't get me wrong I do like PvP and I really would like full loot but to say that it's like real life business, well then you and me do not live in the same world.

Remember I have never said that SotA would be like real life I just pointed out that this part of SotA wasn't, I never even claimed that it was wrong that there was a difference.

 

So.... What is griefing to you?

 

Yup! Sometimes I wonder if there is AI posting to these forums.

 

I'm not trying to debate semantics with you, I get what you are saying, but you seem to skip over that fact I have said each time that I know it is not the exact same thing, your right it not.. I said that the first time i used it as a example. I also said but this is a game and that is the point, SotA isnt real life and i know you havnt compaired SotA to real life but others have, i can't count the times i have heard "this or that don't happen in real life." Well no kidding this isnt real life, i dont kill people in reality,i dont steal or hunt liches , ghosts, trolls, i dont wear armour or shoot fireballs.

 

Well in response to that.....this is what I have posted in another forum:

"Griefing:
What's that?
I'm going to list some of the things I have done or still do in UO and people can make their own mind up:
- Rez kill.
- Horse/Mount kill.
- PK.
- Dry loot.
- Dismember corpses.
- Take heads of players and lock them down on my doorstep.
- Destroy looted armour (cut up/smelt) and make it known to the player.
- Infiltrate other guilds to obtain information of what they are doing .
- Infiltrate other guilds as a workaround to either steal or PK.
- Create ghost cams in key areas.
- Have a stealth character with Spirit Speak in order to follow ghosts to rez kill more often.
- Create characters with inappropriate names such as "a crack whore" or "a suicide bomber".
- Create guilds with inappropriate names.
- Physically blocking another player from exiting an area and thus causing them to die.
- Luring not nice stuff on a player I dislike.
- Respond to trashtalk.
- Trashtalk those who have trashtalked me in the past.
- Running through RP towns PKing RPers (muahahaha).
- Posting pictures like this (me taking a dump on a player I just killed)


I'm sure there are many other things I have done. Personally the only thing I ever consider griefing is actually trashtalk when it oversteps the line in terms of aggression and moving towards real life insulting etc. Those who consider griefing as anything else and feel that they have been excessively subjected to any of the above; all I can say is I suspect that you have done something to upset the player who is 'griefing' you.....probably by trashtalking them."

 

My question, contrary to what some seem to think, was not to argue. It was to carry on the discussion.

Where I was going with this was how do you, as a designer, build a balanced system for something like this. The question was to gather a little more base for the discussion.

So if I understand correctly you wish for there to be: (liberty taken with the process for example)

Gathered base mats: price set by what the market will bare
Gathered rare mats: price set by rarity
Base components: simple items processed from base mats, small mark up
Complex item: items turned into usable products to be sold. small mark up + mark up for skill required
Rare complex item: usable product made with rare mats, price based on rarity

Now, if the devs put in some kind of controls to the gathering process. I won't use AI because apparently that's an impossible topic, too many get miffed over the term and not the definition. Let's use a daily cool down of 24 hours per 1 gather on base mats and 3 months on rare mats (yep over exaggerated on purpose)

It's not easy to get mats with this, it's also in no way fun, don't care, this is an example.

Lets add in a crafting timer for base components of 24 hours. 3 months of grinding for gaining the skill to craft complex items and 1 year to be able to craft Rare complex items.

Bring in PvP and let them loot mats and crafted items.

Do the PvP looters get his with the 24 hour cool down or the 3 month cool down? Do they need to spend the time grinding the skill to craft the items to sell them?

How easy is it for a rare item to be created vs someone taking it in PvP. Undercutting happens but ease of access is not controlled at all.

The devs are putting in controls where pre-Tram UO had zero controls for the devs. (pre-Tram control was PvP, that was removed with Tram creating zero controls in total)

The controls the devs are going to use are not really known to us. Improving the AI is an option and there are other options. PvP is not being used.

 

My short interpretation of what you said is that anything goes in-game as long as it does not become personal in RL. Is that a fair interpretation?

 

Yup

 

I would agree with that. It's about intent.

 

Belive it or not i wasn't out to argue either. I get what you are saying... and to a point you just reinforced my point. Right now crafting is set as a grindfest, to the point me as someone who has only a small interest in crafting as more of a hobby then as a a means of income, wont even bother with it.... crafters are complaining about how much they have to grind for it, and I can see many giveing up on it before to long. But.. from my stand point, I see it as a trade off. Their is no real risk for un flagged crafters other then perhaps better resouses in pvp maps, but again its their choice to go their, it is their choice to hire a guard(s) or not if they do. However how good is the crafting community going to be when half of them give up on it because how time consuming gathering resource is and how much it takes and how much you have to make to rise you crafting lvl? How will that then affect the economy? I believe their must be risk/ reward just as their needs to be supply/demand. They balance each other.

 

Before this part gets taken out of context.

PvP is not being used to control PvE. PvP will have it's own controls. For example, the removal of full loot.

Contested hexes, duels, guild wars, areas, ext are easily controlled since those are all PvP oriented. Open PvP is the hard part. Why we flag open PvP must be accounted for and to each of us there is a different reason.

 

Agreed.

Where I was going mostly was the open PvP part. If risk vs reward is modular. Gathering has it's risks and rewards. Crafting is modular but risk comes indirectly with overhead costs and diversity of product for supply and demand. Open PvP traverses everything, it's not modular, it's open. To effectively balance open PvP it would need to have modular balance.

Such as giving a cool down to looting base mats of 24 hours and rare mats of 3 months (going back to the previous example) Again, not fun, but for the example.

I have no clue how to balance any kind of grind in skill to craft something with the example I used. Other than requiring a long delay on the ability to sell rare items.

As for the current crafting system being a grind. I have always wondered how to design "fun" crafting element. The diversity in opinion is pretty wide.

 

Alright I see the direction your going with this, I will commit further in a hr or two but for now i need to attend RL things.

 

Alright Rista I have a bit more time then I thought. I'm not a fan of big government telling me what to do, I find it to restrictive. So with that said i don't like the idea of a cool down on loot as you have described it. However in UO we had luck.. what if we had a Similar luck system but with a twist. Its not a skill you add points to as you leval it is something that raises each time you get lucky and lowers each time your not. It influences the value of what you loot. Example: I have a lvl 10 rare item on me you kill me, buy luck that rare item comes up as loot. Your luck now increase for now lets just say the 10 points for simplicity sake. Now your chance of looting the highest item again increase. However on the flip side I have a lvl 10 rare item, you kill me but do not get the item.. your luck just decreased by the same 10 points. Now everyone carrys different things.. different luck values so it becomes chance on what your luck is raised or lowered by.

 

My problem with Open PvP comes in when things like profit or boredom turns the focus to new players or lesser skilled players. (often confused with PK)

Full loot is a good example. People can turn quick kills into profit why bother fighting skilled opponents. Bored PvPers tend to turn to griefing which is easily done to new or lesser skilled. (note my intent post above)

A luck factor would have an interesting affect on profit. If you wanted to maximize your chance of your luck bringing in something of worth then you target players that have the potential for this. New players, at least, probably are not going to help articulate your luck factor.

I don't want PvP to be centered around attacking the softest target and running from the hardest. The harder targets play chase to protect those soft targets. In an instanced world chase sucks.