Gamers Nexus: SotA Trailblazes Future of RPG Community Involvement

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by smack, Jan 8, 2015.

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  1. smack

    smack Avatar

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  2. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    One of the takeaways from the piece that I don't like so much is Starr Long blaming the stretch goal store failure on the community, saying we obviously don't really want those features.

    When he first announced the plan for the stretch goal store in the Dev+ forums, I wasn't alone in predicting that the current implementation wouldn't succeed, not due to lack of interest, but because of how it was being sold. The same concerns were immediately voiced when it was officially announced in the main forums. Those concerns were then echoed repeatedly over the past six months.

    When you tell a small group of backers than they have only a few months to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars themselves on divided goals with little incentive, then people aren't taking that risk. If the goals aren't met, then they spent a bunch of money without proper reward.

    There have been numerous proposals that might shift the model and make the stretch goal store successful, with no official response to any of the proposals. Every other time something was posted in the Dev+ forums, it was to solicit feedback and adjust the plan before going public with a more firm announcement. But with the stretch goal store, none of the feedback presented was accounted for.

    Saying the community didn't actually want these features is disheartening.
     
  3. Nemo Herringwary

    Nemo Herringwary Avatar

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    I wonder when Starr made those comments? Because we've fought over these issues again only very recently, and many of us have tried to explain wider reasons why the pledges aren't, and likely won't be funded; maybe Starr was speaking before the recent brouhaha, but it can be summed up very, very simply... I may dearly want to sail the seas as a fisherman, but unless I'm certain you and everyone else in the community want it to the same amount, and will actually spend the money there, it would be madness to fund it myself and find my money goes on a ship I can't actually sail. Increasing my basic pledge, or just buying things direct from the store is far, far greater value for money and the safer bet.

    Likewise it sometimes feels like, unless you know specifically where community support is needed, you're just a passenger on someone else's voyage; I accidentally bumped into the fiction writing contest, by passing through some of the lesser known forums, but by then it had already been blown up by player greed and was no longer being supported. I really could have made a difference there; I'm not a coder and I'm tone deaf and can't sing... but I can write. I know it's a pretty common skill these days, but I flatter myself I could have been useful there. Likewise keeping an eye on the Coat Of Arms; I understand there is chaos and under-staffing there... but I only know what can be gleaned from the forum posts I can find.

    I'm not criticizing the Devs here, having worked in similar fields myself I know you can't with an audience the size of ours truly see every piece of information available; indeed my point is we as players aren't getting it all either. But on the Stretch Goals, I think they've seriously misunderstood the pretty larger trends. And personally, I wish I felt more useful, even if the majority of us, including myself, probably can't be.
     
  4. Joviex

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    I am, and do, which is why people dislike what I say, since like June 2013.

    I even MADE A SYSTEM to solve the problem of participation, with other members here, which is sitting IDLE, with PORTALARIUM, waiting to roll out, since JULY 2014, to get more community contributed stuff INTO THE GAME.

    But, hey, I can only say it umpteen times; ostriches love to bury their heads.

    Problem with the process? Blame the community. Makes sense.
     
  5. Tahru

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    I don't read that much into it. When I read that, I simply thought it was a failed idea that they tried. I don't think it was taking a stab at anyone, especially not the community.
     
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  6. Bubonic

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    I don't think it was a "stab at the community" either... however, it does demonstrate... something.

    I was pretty certain they would think of another reason as to why the stretch goals were failing besides "the community doesn't really want them even though they say they do."
     
  7. EmberFlame

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    Sorry to interrupt the current train of thought...

    Grats to Avatars Radio for getting major props!
     
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  8. Solstar

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    The very first thing a thought when finding the stretch goal store was how prohibitively expensive the goals were. They were isolated to vanity items that had no tangible carry over to the game until that extremely large goal was met. There was nothing inherently enticing about the vast requirements to get useful items, so I figured they over priced the stretch goals on purpose to make the point that they would not divert resources without absolute proof the community wanted a certain piece of content.

    I told myself that they must surely lower the goals as they got further into development and freed up time in the development cycle. So far that hope has been unfounded, but it also hasn't been very long. If we get into Beta and the goals still haven't dropped in price, then I will be surprised.
     
  9. redfish

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    "This doesn't mean the features won't be implemented at some point, but it does mean the current focus avoids dilution and dodges becoming feature-heavy at the cost of the quality of the game."

    I understand this point, although I think if they can make it in without sacrificing the quality of the other features, they'll just make the overall quality of the game better, because some of them (mounts and pack animals) actually help with game balance, and as a whole they help add finesse. They lead to a more polished, fuller game experience. As features, for the most part, they aren't just "bloat."

    Just wish they would consider finding better ways to market the stretch goals.
     
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  10. licemeat

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    Not having interest in the stretch goals is not why I am not investing. I have money to throw in for that but I feel defeated when I look at the current state of the funding. It's like a David and Goliath feeling. It's like a street performer that just has an empty jar. We need some starter money in there. Compacted with the fact that if I were to back a goal, I can't move the money to another stretch goal that might be on the ball and the funding is actually advancing. Lower the expectations, get one done, gain confidence in the system from the community, and fill the game with " feature-heavy" things like riding a horse in a medieval game.
     
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  11. Gubbles

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    It's atleast mentioned in the article, so I think we're led to believe it was during CES but I suppose that doesn't necessarily have to be true.

    "The cost of implementing the desired features was figured out and these were released as individual stretch goals with bonus items available for purchase to fill up the stretch goal. This was a unique twist on the stretch goal as it is 100% player-requested content. He did admit that it hasn't worked as well as was hoped, though; after 6 months, not one of the items is even close to funding. Long says he took it as a learning opportunity that even though players say they really want these items, the fact they haven't funded shows that the interest is not there as much as the forums might show. This doesn't mean the features won't be implemented at some point, but it does mean the current focus avoids dilution and dodges becoming feature-heavy at the cost of the quality of the game."

    I've always thought the price tag of the stretch goals weren't anywhere near actual development cost, so to read in this article that it was based on cost to implement is a bit surprising to me.
     
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  12. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    I contributed to the Stretch Goals...I really want the things in the game and I guess I put my money where my mouth was.

    I didn't want every single item in there though and I'm not about to stick $100-$200 in every category, which is what it would take all of us to do to get these funded with the numbers of active players right now.

    Not sure how we're supposed to be responsible for that.
     
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  13. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    That's why I've been trying to encourage others to step forward and take the first step. Maybe it could snowball.
     
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  14. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    Maybe we should get badges in the forum or something ("Stretch Goal Contributer"), to kind of guilt people into also contributing.
     
  15. enderandrew

    enderandrew Legend of the Hearth

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    To reward those who have contributed!

    People can take the initiative and just put in their signature:

    I Supported the Mount Stretch Goal!

    I Support Team Donkey!

    I Support Team Llama!

    etc.
     
  16. Lord Baldrith

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    I've supported most of the stretch goals because I consider them very important to our game. I think the prices needed for all of them are too high. I would guess that is some of the reason they are not moving very fast...
     
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  17. Gubbles

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    I didn't like the proposed mount stretch goal where the horse appears and disappears from thin air. I won't be contributing to stretch goals until they're restructed.
     
  18. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    How would you have horses though? Can't keep them at our house, no place to put them in a row house for a start (no garden).

    The horses would be far easier to manage with a simple summons (skill), and have them clipclop up to us from a short distance so it looks like they were already in the game world (Age of Conan did this well).
     
  19. Gubbles

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    Community Stable in each town akin to UO.

    I agree with you that it's easier to manage with a simple summon. It's also a lot easier to develop, which makes me wonder how the price tag for the stretch goal can be so high. Summoned mounts is just not the game play I'm looking for.
     
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  20. rune_74

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    I support just reaching the things they said would be in game...the stretch goals seem way far out.
     
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