Stealing

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by ghostthealienhunter, Apr 22, 2014.

?

Should SOTA have the stealing skill?

  1. Yes.

    76.5%
  2. No.

    8.8%
  3. Maybe.

    14.7%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ravenclaw [BEAR]

    Ravenclaw [BEAR] Avatar

    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    3,511
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Setup stocks (pillory). If a thief gets caught by the guards or caught and beaten by the player they tried to steal from ('mug') then they can be placed in the stocks for x amount of time for other players to admire and throw things at. :rolleyes: Makes for an interesting risk reward scenario...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Add a sign above their heads of the person who caught them and why they are there.

    To avoid any 'unusual' acts being performed on them while in this position, have it so anyone climbing onto the stocks (pilroy) is also automatically placed in them. ;)
     
  2. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    6,874
    Likes Received:
    26,601
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    I like almost of what I'm hearing; ;)

    Yet, I do however believe that the art of theft needs to be much more than just stealing from players. "I don't want to steal from player" because it's the same limiting amount as opting in or out of PvP "and I don't want the need of that restriction".

    I want to burglarize NPC houses and other NPC/Public Buildings with clear objectives placed there to tempt me to devise a plan.

    I want to use an arrow and a rope and swing like spiderman,
    I want to be able to leap to the top of a one story building like Mario,
    I want to swim as fast as Johnny Weissmuller in Tarzan
    and be able to set time bombs (that's not an alchemist's job, that's mine ;) they just make the stuff that goes boom) so when I need to get away I've got them on timer or trigger to blow anyone behind me to kingdom come.
    I want to climb trees like Donkey Kong and run faster than Speedy Gonzales.
    I want to set a trap that breaks a wagon's wheel on the way to market in another town
    I want to be able to throw a rock to distract a Guard and the ability to (accidently ;)) trip a pursuing guard that's after my cohort buddy that got the goods
    I want to crack the safe in the bank and rob the tiller from the teller and russle the cattle and horses.

    I want thieves to be Robin Hoods, not harassing players that no one wants to play with.
    This is New Britannia, not the lame old games of UO.

    This isn't between the thief and the people, this is only between the King and what we can rob from his Kingdom!
    Leave the peasants alone, and in this way, there needs little but Real Thief 's Quests to have fun with...

    "Lord British, I don't want to rob your people, I Want to Rob You!":D
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  3. Ravenclaw [BEAR]

    Ravenclaw [BEAR] Avatar

    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    3,511
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    I volunteer Time Lord to be the first person to test out the pillory. :rolleyes:
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  4. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    6,874
    Likes Received:
    26,601
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
  5. Ravenclaw [BEAR]

    Ravenclaw [BEAR] Avatar

    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    3,511
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Now that would be just plain cruel.. o_O The crucifixion I could deal with but the singing... AHHH!
     
    Mercyful Fate and Time Lord like this.
  6. redfish

    redfish Avatar

    Messages:
    11,211
    Likes Received:
    27,345
    Trophy Points:
    165


    [​IMG]
     
    Rodriguez, Time Lord and Ravenclaw like this.
  7. Wonderboy2402

    Wonderboy2402 Avatar

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    8
    When I played Ultima Online what kept me logging in was getting into antics with my thief character. I didn't have many friends to PVP with or go adventuring but I could always solo as a thief and have fun.
     
    Dean Valentine and Time Lord like this.
  8. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    6,874
    Likes Received:
    26,601
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    "New Britannia and new ways we may begin thinking about the Rogue" o_O

    It's always been a very difficult subject to get input on because of all the bad harassing memories of the bygone games. So, lets all chime in here and look at the Rogue with a clean slate of thinking on the empty black board and see what we and all players would envision we would like to see happen to this skill class;

    We all know that it will take many SotA $ hours of design and confined areas and rules and restrictions similar to the "impossible open PvP world thinking" (which SotA is never going to be, so we need to get use to that idea no matter how anyone squawks and chatters about it)...
    I'd rather see those SotA $ development bucks $ to go in another more productive direction then that of restrictive things about Rogues. By doing this, we may see a Rogue chr worth many other players to play with in our SotA :) and please keep in mind that our SotA is primarily a "Questing Puzzle Game" yet also an interactive world game full of dungeon style fighting and resource based game life....

    So what would such a thing look like in a world where you can't steal from any player?
    (I'm not a story writer, I'm more of a limerick slinger that passes that off as poetry... but here I'll give an RP play you may take as a sort of story)

    Let's say that an average adventurer is sitting around outside the bank (as most of us remember doing in UO)... when he sees some chr named Time Lord disguised as the Rouge Rogue in a woman's dress shoot an arrow into a tree with a rope on it above the bank and swings to the bank's rooftop. Knowing it's a robbery, the adventurer goes to one of the bank's guards and yells "Robbery!"..."There's a Robbery happening you fool!"... and all the guard says is... "We'll have no talk of that here! Move along!" (because the other PvE and PvP players can do nothing at all to interfere with the Robbery Quest) So the now spectating adventurer sits down watch what is unfolding as if it were an RP styled "Play to enjoy". There he sees a chr named Rambone who threw a stone that distracted the guard from seeing Time Lord making his spiderman move and there he also sees a chr named Fryer Tuck telling a story to another guard about the Oracle which he found out that that particular guard wanted to hear from Robin Hood that found it out from romancing Lilly the bank's teller the night before, yet Robin Hood is now stationed inside the bank eating a sandwich with Lilly being invited there for her lunch break.
    Time Lord opens the bank roof's access door that was so squeaky couldn't be opened the night before without alerting the guards, yet the guard is now distracted by Fryer Tuck's story he's telling to the guard. Meanwhile, Rambone is on the lookout for the traveling Guard Captain because if he sees them there, then he will alert the other guards and all will be lost because he became suspicious of Robin Hood at the previous night's dinner table where Robin Hood Had been invited by Lilly to meet her father...aka the Captain of the Guards... The Time Lord by this time has been feverishly working on the combination lock to the bank's safe while Robin Hood and Lilly are outside the teller's cage having lunch but can only last so long as the food doesn't run out or Robin Hood doesn't run out of his charm.
    Suddenly Rambone sees the Captain of the Guard coming, the Rouge Rogue (Time Lord) cracks open the safe which trips the alarm, Lilly begins screaming, Robin Hood gives her a kiss, Rambone trips the bank Guard while Robin Hood and the Rouge Rogue run out the banks door and down the street with the $cash$ while Rambone sets off the explosives placed near the town exit Guards temporarily distracting and stunning them for the band of robbers to run right past them and from there to the outside of town. There the 3 split the cash, "the town's poor beggars and drunks all get new cloths that day", Rambone makes his way to the woods carrying all the disguises... as the Time Lord and Will Scarlet walk back into town as if nothing happened. Yet they still have one more thing to do, and that is to find a way to rescue Fryer tuck who was caught by the Captain of the Guards and is now stuck in the stocks in the center of town... *singing* "Always Look On the Bright Side of Life" :p

    Inside our game and it's dungeons, there are only so many ways to place quests and puzzles for any adventurer to solve. With the addition of such a Rogue Styled chr, there can be many more ;)

    It seems a terrible waist of Portalarium $ to create pickpockets that few play and most despise to be around because of that skill's harassing nature to other player.
    Any Feed Back very Welcomed (even if you will never play a rogue chr) o_O
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  9. High Baron O`Sullivan

    High Baron O`Sullivan Avatar

    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    8,109
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    is everything.
    How can anyone vote "no" to stealing?
     
  10. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,145
    Likes Received:
    23,091
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    For whatever reason I feel like reiterating my thoughts on theft.. so digging through the archives my ideas go something rather like so..

    That was one thing that really annoyed me in UO.. was that brazen behavior knowing you could hide behind the system without fear of reprisal by the player.

    Stealing is a form of PvP. As such, the victim needs to be flagged for PvP.. and so must the thief.

    I think a thief should be attackable by players without reprisal so long as they're in possession of stolen goods.. or within a certain timeframe of committing a crime. At which time they should have to create X distance from themselves and their victim.. or get a "safe" distance whether they're "caught in the act" or not.. to turn that flag off. but that does not mean there should be any visible indicators that they're a thief unless a proper skill check is made... the UO system was not well balanced in this regard.. there should always be a reasonable risk of getting caught.. especially in broad daylight.

    Example: Thief is lurking about player A and tries to steal something. Thief fails so there's no proof they tried anything. Thief succeeds but isn't noticed.. but player A suspects something is up. Thief can now be attacked since they have stolen goods and are still close to A but with no visual indicators they're attackable since A failed a spot check and the thief succeeded in stealing. The thief must now distance himself to a safe distance and dispose of the stolen goods before they're 'safe' again.

    Same scenario but this time A succeeds in a spot check.. thief now has a visual indicator that they're a criminal and must remain a safe distance from A without being attacked by anyone to be safe.

    I suppose any visual indicator should be exclusive to whomever spotted the thief in the act until actual combat occurs.. then everyone should be able to tell (including guards).

    For that matter there should be a 'call guards' emote or something.. but maybe it'll only work if someone actually spots the thief.. thieving..
     
    Heradite, Numa and Time Lord like this.
  11. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    6,874
    Likes Received:
    26,601
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    By getting rid of the ability of the Rogue to grief/steal from other players, we also take away the abilities of the other players to involve themselves in the King's business, and it is the King's business to guard the Kingdom's treasures.

    If we allow the Rogue to steal from other players without regard to whether they have opted in for PvP, then we allow grief by theft and PvP by theft, thereby allowing PvP into a player's world that does not want it.

    If we only allow Rogues to have their skill, in PvP areas, or only to those that opt in for PvP, then we single out this skill set of players to ever have any option to be in a non-PvP world, which is totally unfair to that player in taking away any option afforded to other players by our game. Yet we also thus implement by doing so, a very limiting and limited world for the Rogue that our SotA $ to have taken so much to create. Thus also limiting the amount of players that would wish to play such a skill set.

    The Opt in for PvP world = stealing from player as well as the King and having them both retaliate for the crime....
    The Opt out of the PvP world = stealing only from the King, which only the King and his NPC's can retaliate for the crime...

    To say that any player can yell "Guards" in both "opt in & opt out" world, only feeds the hidden desires of those that should be, in the PvP world.

    "We should not condone double standards"
    For a skill set that all our SotA $ went to create...
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  12. Robby

    Robby Avatar

    Messages:
    1,015
    Likes Received:
    1,237
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    So in other words a PvE rogue that only steals from NPC's or burglarizes the homes of NPC's(and of course, if we dont develop a purely PvE burglary quest system for rogues, there probably wont be burglary at all!) will not have the guards called on them by players who are not flagged for PvP?
    So If I want to burglarize an NPC castle or something in single player online im free to do so without any player do-gooders interfereing?
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  13. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    6,874
    Likes Received:
    26,601
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    I think that would be fare to say Robby... as... if you and everyone you played with were in the PvE instancing and outside of any PvP zone, then yes, the other players should just sit back and watch the show.

    There's been so little talk from the portalarium people about any Rogues or their skills, that I wonder if they/we will ever be having a Rogue chr to play with here in SotA. As I understand the skills as they are thought of now, many skills that we would think are rogue skills (like acrobatics) are lumped in with the Knight's or warrior combat circle.
    That's one of the reasons that I want to start talking about Rogues, because if we don't talk about them, we may not even have them.
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  14. Numa

    Numa Avatar

    Messages:
    2,906
    Likes Received:
    5,636
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Breaker's Landing
    The only Rogue related stuff I saw in R5 were associated with the Air magics, that and the leather armor's bonuses to stealth. Not quite sure how I"ll vote on this but one condition I"d put in is that - like backstab - you can only steal from a person if he/she is facing away from you. The minute they turn the steal attempt fails automatically.

    Standing or sitting with your back to the wall makes you safe, regardless if it's a PVP area or not.
     
    Mercyful Fate and Time Lord like this.
  15. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    6,874
    Likes Received:
    26,601
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/magic-combat-and-crafting-skills.3937/

    From looking at something like this, it's clear to me that the creator's thinking is avoiding any gathering of any skill set that would be a Rogues.
    Mages and Knight's skill sets have taken the things from what would be a Rogue and splattered them throughout the 2, causing the Rogue to disappear in any pure form.
    I could be wrong in saying that, because I often times am wrong as many are because of the evolving creation.
    We have seen this happen in Ultima Online, where the Mages and Warriors, but mostly mage class, has wanted to share the skills that belong to the Rogue, thus leaving the Rogue only to harass as a pickpocket.
    There are very few pickpockets in the real world. They do exists, yet are vastly out numbered by the true thieves, but they are all Rogues and not magical people, but skilled people or people in prisons, or dead.

    I just believe that it's sad, when we can't think past only 2 sets of styled players (Mages & Warriors) to fulfill all our adventuring encounters :(
    And even if we did create them, then the other 2 would wish those skills for themselves.

    Yet, if we mixed our skills under the current card based skills, will it/is it possible for those skills to all be collected into one chr?
    And what would that chr's skills look like under the current build? o_O
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  16. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,145
    Likes Received:
    23,091
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    There is more to rogues than just stealing of course. It's always a bit sad to think some great concepts just aren't going to make it in EP1 but what can do? Work on and discuss your ideas.. polish them up for the next EP.

    I would certainly like to see fully fleshed out rogue skills.. but I think that goes rather beyond the scope of just stealing. I do believe the subject is worthy of it's own specialized set of threads. (Preferably an organized one). hmmmm
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  17. Mercyful Fate

    Mercyful Fate Avatar

    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    567
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    US East Coast
    What about if, while the thief is in the act and gets caught, when someone calls out "Guards" with the thief still in the vicinity, that flags the thief as a "red" and causes his/her name to be automatically placed on the local town's Bounty Board. Being a "red" would imply that the thief can be attacked by both PC and NPC.

    Additionally, a chat broadcast is announced within the local area only ( perhaps with a certain radius ) informing others that a robbery has occurred. This would be synonymous with all the local townsfolk shouting "Thief!!! There he is! Get'im, boys!"

    Everyone in that area will be hunting the thief both for revenge as well as the Bounty Board reward.

    I would love to play both sides of that scenario! :cool:
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  18. Bowen Bloodgood

    Bowen Bloodgood Avatar

    Messages:
    13,145
    Likes Received:
    23,091
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Caer Dracwych
    I think the main key to that idea is that the thief has to get caught in the act for any of that to take place. It relies on the assumption that the person calling the guards knows for a fact that the thief is guilty and can identify him/her to others. In which case I'm fine with it. It works well what I'm suggesting.

    What I think would be silly is for people to run around with macros like in UO "buy sell bank guards" and having thieves get caught just because people are spam calling guards everywhere they go.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  19. Ravenclaw [BEAR]

    Ravenclaw [BEAR] Avatar

    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    3,511
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Why not control the rogues stealing abilities by making items in game that are stealable and others that are not. Example pledge and donation items are not stealable, quest items and other specific or unique items are also not stealable. However things like gold, crafted equipment, basic items etc.. Are stealable.

    Add some rules for example if it's equipped then it can't be taken and then let rogues have at it.

    I think the topic of stealing is the basic complaint of most people. Over the rules for what and what is not stealable are defined then we can focus on what other skills abilities a rogue should have. That's when the character will get interesting and stealing may become an afterthought at that point.




    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
    Heradite and Time Lord like this.
  20. Silent Strider

    Silent Strider Avatar

    Messages:
    1,067
    Likes Received:
    1,343
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn't vote, but stealing tends to be a part of any game that I prefer to ignore. If I'm actually roleplaying my character, it tends to end any game with a karma/virtue/alignment/whatever system as a paragon, nearly a saint. In order to steal from a NPC I actually have to intentionally break my immersion, do the action mechanically while repeating to myself that it's only a game, and only afterwards act to reinstate my immersion while ignoring what I did earlier.

    So, for me, not having a stealing mechanic isn't an issue. In fact, it's a positive for me in that effort that could be used in a stealing skill is used elsewhere.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.